3 ms·

Isn't it possible they didn't know the phones were fake? If the fakes are so good that even Apple can't tell, then it's possible they thought they were real. Ma

Isn't it possible they didn't know the phones were fake? If the fakes are so good that even Apple can't tell, then it's possible they thought they were real. Maybe they thought they were buying genuine iPhones for cheap since they were broke and having Apple send replacements to make a profit? Or am I missing something?

lavezzi 8y ago
It doesn't sound like it the way the article frames it. A lot of shipments were stopped at the border by CBP.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Stopped because of how they were packaged. But if you were shipping goods to your friend to return for you, why would you send them in retail boxes? They’re already “broken”. No need to overprotect anything. As an Ebayer, most of my shipments are in crumpled re-used Amazon packaging with 50 stamps. At least I type out the “TO” address.
  - taborj 8y ago
    Yeah, but the frequency is the thing. They returned several thousand, which - if legit - means these two were the point of contact for an entire village back in China. I can buy that the guy sending them back may not have known, though again the quantity he was sending should have raised a red flag. But the guy who was receiving the broken counterfeits and returning them to Apple? No way he didn't know he was doing something shady.
    - rasz 8y ago
      There were no counterfeits, apple calls original iphone/parts fake when its being shipped internationally without their authorization. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3yadk/apple-sued-an-independent-iphone-repair-shop-owner-and-lost https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3yadk/apple-sued...
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      I agree, now that I see there are Apple stores in China. I thought there weren’t.
rococode 8y ago
Your line of thinking is perfectly valid and that seems to be the defense argument, but overall the article seems to suggest that it was well organized. Someone in China was sending constant shipments of phones to them at various locations, and they would send back the real replacement phones and then get paid via one of the guys's mom. As you say, it's still possible that they legitimately believed the phones were just broken and they were helping facilitate repairs but to me it's a little hard to believe given how organized it was.
rootedbox 8y ago
If someone is having you do something they could do themselves, and they want you to do it more than once.. it's probably illegal.. 1000 times.. definitely illegal; and you can't really play the ignorance card at that point.
rasz 8y ago
They werent fake, they were "unauthorized", as fake as _original_ Apple batteries and screens being seized by customs because they bear Apple logo. How the scam works - Apple sends their junk to China to remanufacture/recycle. There instead of being ground into a fine dust some end up in chinese panties to be smuggled out of the facility. Next someone pulls out most profitable still working parts, puts the phone back together and tries to pass it thru warranty process again: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/10/09/rampant-chinese-iphone-repair-fraud-forced-apple-to-develop-countermeasures https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/10/09/rampant-chinese-i... Apparently they managed to get a grip on Chinese fraud, so scammers moved operation into US. There is no such thing as Genius at the "genius" bar, they arent allowed to repair anything (can only sent it up the chain to Texas afair) and often dont even know how to open products, not to mention being able to tell what should be inside.
- gowld 8y ago
  That's great. Apple to to dump their e-waste on China, and ends up paying the Piper.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  I think Apple just shreds. No harvesting and re-marketing of spare parts, unless its for their own internal repairs. It's why I have been able to harvest my old units for parts and cover a substantial cost of each upgrade. I even sold a completely broken iphone 7 mainboard for $40, without fingerprint reader. I literally found the phone smashed to pieces on the ground (with SIM removed).
  - rasz 8y ago
    Replacement phones are refurbs - previously returned broken phones with trivial defects, fixed in US using parts re manufactured(motherboards) in China.

lavezzi 8y ago

It doesn't sound like it the way the article frames it. A lot of shipments were stopped at the border by CBP.

Scoundreller 8y ago
Stopped because of how they were packaged. But if you were shipping goods to your friend to return for you, why would you send them in retail boxes? They’re already “broken”. No need to overprotect anything. As an Ebayer, most of my shipments are in crumpled re-used Amazon packaging with 50 stamps. At least I type out the “TO” address.
- taborj 8y ago
  Yeah, but the frequency is the thing. They returned several thousand, which - if legit - means these two were the point of contact for an entire village back in China. I can buy that the guy sending them back may not have known, though again the quantity he was sending should have raised a red flag. But the guy who was receiving the broken counterfeits and returning them to Apple? No way he didn't know he was doing something shady.
  - rasz 8y ago
    There were no counterfeits, apple calls original iphone/parts fake when its being shipped internationally without their authorization. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3yadk/apple-sued-an-independent-iphone-repair-shop-owner-and-lost https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3yadk/apple-sued...
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    I agree, now that I see there are Apple stores in China. I thought there weren’t.

rococode 8y ago

Your line of thinking is perfectly valid and that seems to be the defense argument, but overall the article seems to suggest that it was well organized. Someone in China was sending constant shipments of phones to them at various locations, and they would send back the real replacement phones and then get paid via one of the guys's mom. As you say, it's still possible that they legitimately believed the phones were just broken and they were helping facilitate repairs but to me it's a little hard to believe given how organized it was.

rootedbox 8y ago

If someone is having you do something they could do themselves, and they want you to do it more than once.. it's probably illegal.. 1000 times.. definitely illegal; and you can't really play the ignorance card at that point.

rasz 8y ago

They werent fake, they were "unauthorized", as fake as _original_ Apple batteries and screens being seized by customs because they bear Apple logo. How the scam works - Apple sends their junk to China to remanufacture/recycle. There instead of being ground into a fine dust some end up in chinese panties to be smuggled out of the facility. Next someone pulls out most profitable still working parts, puts the phone back together and tries to pass it thru warranty process again: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/10/09/rampant-chinese-iphone-repair-fraud-forced-apple-to-develop-countermeasures https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/10/09/rampant-chinese-i... Apparently they managed to get a grip on Chinese fraud, so scammers moved operation into US. There is no such thing as Genius at the "genius" bar, they arent allowed to repair anything (can only sent it up the chain to Texas afair) and often dont even know how to open products, not to mention being able to tell what should be inside.

gowld 8y ago
That's great. Apple to to dump their e-waste on China, and ends up paying the Piper.
Scoundreller 8y ago
I think Apple just shreds. No harvesting and re-marketing of spare parts, unless its for their own internal repairs. It's why I have been able to harvest my old units for parts and cover a substantial cost of each upgrade. I even sold a completely broken iphone 7 mainboard for $40, without fingerprint reader. I literally found the phone smashed to pieces on the ground (with SIM removed).
- rasz 8y ago
  Replacement phones are refurbs - previously returned broken phones with trivial defects, fixed in US using parts re manufactured(motherboards) in China.