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Tesla's market is extremely niche. Luxury car to an uneducated car buyer. Car enthusiasts won't get a Tesla because Tesla's ARE inferior to the competition at

Tesla's market is extremely niche. Luxury car to an uneducated car buyer. Car enthusiasts won't get a Tesla because Tesla's ARE inferior to the competition at that price point. You don't buy a Tesla because you want your car to work for 2 years without breaking, you buy a Tesla to show friends. I know luxury Ford products sold 20k/yr, and those were some seriously high end SUVs. Same price point. I cannot see how Teala is sustainable. Edit, the reliability problems aren't unique to Tesla, any new car has them. I don't understand why people straight lie about it not having reliability issues.

Dumblydorr 8y ago
Teslas are superior, not inferior. It's simple physics, BEV means higher acceleration, lower center of gravity, better cabin volume, quieter, and most importantly: you don't contribute nearly as much to destroying the climate or causing asthma and emphysema in children. How do you counter these basic BEV advantages? Are you in favor of releasing emissions for thousands of years?
- skellera 8y ago
  Obviously they were speaking in terms of luxury. No need for the loaded question.
- _Microft 8y ago
  The quality of the interior, not the technical part, is said to be pretty low for the price class that the Model S or X are in.
- frontloadpro 8y ago
  This is a Strawman comment, from an uneducated car buyer. There are plenty of higher quality electric vehicles. The acceleration is one tiny aspect of customer satisfaction. Tesla has worst in class interiors and reliability. Not having buttons or trays is something only Tesla can get away with. Is it better for the environment to buy a used car? Or better for the environment to buy a new car?
  - CydeWeys 8y ago
    Just to let you know, you've now called anyone who disagrees with your opinion "uneducated" multiple times. This really rubs me the wrong way. You need to realize that other people have different priorities than you do. Not everyone cares that their car be as luxury as possible. They just want a good electric vehicle, and there's nothing that beats the Model 3 at that price point -- not in range and not in performance. Yeah, maybe it doesn't have leather seats as nice as the BMW, but most people don't prioritize surface-level luxury above all else, and especially not hardware/car nerds.
    - Domenic_S 8y ago
      FWIW i've owned 3 BMWs and a 2018 Mercedes and I much prefer the seats -- both from a comfort and materials perspective -- in my Model 3 (2nd gen seats).
  - goshx 8y ago
    For someone claiming to be so educated, how can you make so many false statements? Perhaps you should have a personal experience with them before going around just repeating what you read somewhere or from your imagination.
- LoSboccacc 8y ago
  none of that makes a car superior. true that performance matters, but only up to a point, then it's interior space and organization, build quality, comfort, accessibility and why not boot space.
- piokoch 8y ago
  You are right. The problem is that it is not perception of luxury car buyer. First of all Tesla does not have luxury car design, interior does not look as flashy as the one from competition. In addition someone who typically buys top Mercedes model that uses 15 liters of gasoline per 100 kilometers every 3 years, buys new iPhone every two years, flyes 5 times a year to spend holidays in a beautiful but distant locations simple does not give a crap about climate changes. That is obviously such person is very pro-eco and wants to fight climate changes (verbally) and even donates some anti global warming foundation and advocates strict CO emission regulations (especially in developing countries) but the last thing such person would do is to restrict its own consumption.
- chronic7s92 8y ago
  > you don't contribute nearly as much to destroying the climate or causing asthma and emphysema in children. Slow down there. Not everyone cares about climate change. The _only_ reason I got a Tesla was for the acceleration and social status. With the Model 3, status has been diluted. Is climate change happening and being accelerated by humans? Yes. Do I care? No. I'm actually selling my P3D and switching to a Porsche 911 because of the Tesla brand dilution. Disclaimer: I work at Google.
kasey_junk 8y ago
I am definitely uneducated & also unlikely to ever buy a luxury car at the Tesla price point. But if I weren’t what electric car would I buy?
- justtopost 8y ago
  You would not buy electric if well versed in automotive tech. Notice few if any mechanics drive ecars.
  - goshx 8y ago
    You mean, you would not buy electric if, as a mechanic, most of your knowledge cannot be applied to an electric car. For other people who like speed and performance, Tesla's are the cheapest way to get there.
    - paganel 8y ago
      > For other people who like speed and performance, Tesla's are the cheapest way to get there. I generally like Teslas but unfortunately they were not meant to be driven at high speeds for what other people consider as a normal period of time, as can be seen for example in this YT video [1] of a Tesla's battery over-heating after driving at 190-200 kph on the German autobahn. Their 0-to-100 kph times are excellent, though. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0F5f9bmwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0F5f9bmwc
      - CydeWeys 8y ago
        The vast majority of Germans don't drive on the Autobahn at such insane speeds, and this certainly isn't an option anywhere else anyway (legally). Such a niche use case really does not matter all that greatly in the scheme of things. I can think of dozens of factors more important to me than "not being able to drive at 200 kph for extended periods of time".
        paganel 8y ago
Stephen-E 8y ago
John Carmack would disagree: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/4kfs42/john_carmack_discusses_tesla_roadster_1000whp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/4kfs42/john_ca...
zaroth 8y ago
Everything about this comment is wrong. Car enthusiasts love Tesla. Check out the WSJ review of the Tesla Model 3 Performance [1]; ”This thing is magnificent, a little rainbow-farting space ship, so obviously representative of the next step in the history of autos.” Tesla’s are also very reliable, despite what CR would have you believe. Owner satisfaction is higher for Tesla than any other car, even Porsche 911 and Corvettes. CR admits that owners would not be satisfied with unreliable cars, and then ding TM3 for touchscreen glitches. Actually, my touchscreen did freeze several times last year under the original firmware. There was an issue where the internet radio streaming would stall if LTE dropped out just as you were skipping a track. They fixed it at the end of last year and the screen hasn’t stalled even once since that OTA update. My TM3 literally just got 5% faster due to an OTA update this week, because Tesla decided they had too much margin in their motor design. Finally, the TCO of a RWD standard range Model 3 is lower than a Honda Accord. These cars have a bad reputation for being expensive. My friends ask me how I could possibly afford a car that will ultimately cost less than a $35k ICE vehicle. [1] - https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-ever-review-of-the-tesla-model-3-performance-a-thrilling-modern-marvel-1532022533 https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-ever-review-of-the-tesla-...
rconti 8y ago
I'm a car enthusiast, and you're wrong.

Dumblydorr 8y ago

Teslas are superior, not inferior. It's simple physics, BEV means higher acceleration, lower center of gravity, better cabin volume, quieter, and most importantly: you don't contribute nearly as much to destroying the climate or causing asthma and emphysema in children. How do you counter these basic BEV advantages? Are you in favor of releasing emissions for thousands of years?

skellera 8y ago
Obviously they were speaking in terms of luxury. No need for the loaded question.
_Microft 8y ago
The quality of the interior, not the technical part, is said to be pretty low for the price class that the Model S or X are in.
frontloadpro 8y ago
This is a Strawman comment, from an uneducated car buyer. There are plenty of higher quality electric vehicles. The acceleration is one tiny aspect of customer satisfaction. Tesla has worst in class interiors and reliability. Not having buttons or trays is something only Tesla can get away with. Is it better for the environment to buy a used car? Or better for the environment to buy a new car?
- CydeWeys 8y ago
  Just to let you know, you've now called anyone who disagrees with your opinion "uneducated" multiple times. This really rubs me the wrong way. You need to realize that other people have different priorities than you do. Not everyone cares that their car be as luxury as possible. They just want a good electric vehicle, and there's nothing that beats the Model 3 at that price point -- not in range and not in performance. Yeah, maybe it doesn't have leather seats as nice as the BMW, but most people don't prioritize surface-level luxury above all else, and especially not hardware/car nerds.
  - Domenic_S 8y ago
    FWIW i've owned 3 BMWs and a 2018 Mercedes and I much prefer the seats -- both from a comfort and materials perspective -- in my Model 3 (2nd gen seats).
- goshx 8y ago
  For someone claiming to be so educated, how can you make so many false statements? Perhaps you should have a personal experience with them before going around just repeating what you read somewhere or from your imagination.
LoSboccacc 8y ago
none of that makes a car superior. true that performance matters, but only up to a point, then it's interior space and organization, build quality, comfort, accessibility and why not boot space.
piokoch 8y ago
You are right. The problem is that it is not perception of luxury car buyer. First of all Tesla does not have luxury car design, interior does not look as flashy as the one from competition. In addition someone who typically buys top Mercedes model that uses 15 liters of gasoline per 100 kilometers every 3 years, buys new iPhone every two years, flyes 5 times a year to spend holidays in a beautiful but distant locations simple does not give a crap about climate changes. That is obviously such person is very pro-eco and wants to fight climate changes (verbally) and even donates some anti global warming foundation and advocates strict CO emission regulations (especially in developing countries) but the last thing such person would do is to restrict its own consumption.
chronic7s92 8y ago
> you don't contribute nearly as much to destroying the climate or causing asthma and emphysema in children. Slow down there. Not everyone cares about climate change. The _only_ reason I got a Tesla was for the acceleration and social status. With the Model 3, status has been diluted. Is climate change happening and being accelerated by humans? Yes. Do I care? No. I'm actually selling my P3D and switching to a Porsche 911 because of the Tesla brand dilution. Disclaimer: I work at Google.

kasey_junk 8y ago

I am definitely uneducated & also unlikely to ever buy a luxury car at the Tesla price point. But if I weren’t what electric car would I buy?

justtopost 8y ago
You would not buy electric if well versed in automotive tech. Notice few if any mechanics drive ecars.
- goshx 8y ago
  You mean, you would not buy electric if, as a mechanic, most of your knowledge cannot be applied to an electric car. For other people who like speed and performance, Tesla's are the cheapest way to get there.
  - paganel 8y ago
    > For other people who like speed and performance, Tesla's are the cheapest way to get there. I generally like Teslas but unfortunately they were not meant to be driven at high speeds for what other people consider as a normal period of time, as can be seen for example in this YT video [1] of a Tesla's battery over-heating after driving at 190-200 kph on the German autobahn. Their 0-to-100 kph times are excellent, though. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0F5f9bmwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0F5f9bmwc
    - CydeWeys 8y ago
      The vast majority of Germans don't drive on the Autobahn at such insane speeds, and this certainly isn't an option anywhere else anyway (legally). Such a niche use case really does not matter all that greatly in the scheme of things. I can think of dozens of factors more important to me than "not being able to drive at 200 kph for extended periods of time".
      - paganel 8y ago

Stephen-E 8y ago

John Carmack would disagree: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/4kfs42/john_carmack_discusses_tesla_roadster_1000whp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/4kfs42/john_ca...

zaroth 8y ago

Everything about this comment is wrong. Car enthusiasts love Tesla. Check out the WSJ review of the Tesla Model 3 Performance [1]; ”This thing is magnificent, a little rainbow-farting space ship, so obviously representative of the next step in the history of autos.” Tesla’s are also very reliable, despite what CR would have you believe. Owner satisfaction is higher for Tesla than any other car, even Porsche 911 and Corvettes. CR admits that owners would not be satisfied with unreliable cars, and then ding TM3 for touchscreen glitches. Actually, my touchscreen did freeze several times last year under the original firmware. There was an issue where the internet radio streaming would stall if LTE dropped out just as you were skipping a track. They fixed it at the end of last year and the screen hasn’t stalled even once since that OTA update. My TM3 literally just got 5% faster due to an OTA update this week, because Tesla decided they had too much margin in their motor design. Finally, the TCO of a RWD standard range Model 3 is lower than a Honda Accord. These cars have a bad reputation for being expensive. My friends ask me how I could possibly afford a car that will ultimately cost less than a $35k ICE vehicle. [1] - https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-ever-review-of-the-tesla-model-3-performance-a-thrilling-modern-marvel-1532022533 https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-ever-review-of-the-tesla-...

rconti 8y ago

I'm a car enthusiast, and you're wrong.