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Gmail is wrong? And no surprise there. Don’t get me wrong: having written enough email-stuff myself, I can fully sympathize with Linus. That said: Just like t

Gmail is wrong? And no surprise there. Don’t get me wrong: having written enough email-stuff myself, I can fully sympathize with Linus. That said: Just like the worldwide web is quickly turning into whatever Google pushes through Chrome and their web assets, internet email now slowly seems to become whatever Gmail does or supports. Which is terrible. 90% of the programming guides for various languages and libraries now are not “This is how you send an internet email using SMTP from $X”, they are “This is how you send a Gmail from $X”. And all that’s because of one single thing only: Market-share. Get off Gmail. Get off Chrome. And help others do that too. Help bring down that market-share, and you may help restore balance to the internet.

pmlnr 8y ago
I've been hosting my own mail for more, than a decade. It pays off; eg. I can access it even in China, unlike gmail. Despite the myths, it's not _that_ hard to set it up, but you do need your clean own ipv4 address for everything to go smooth - I mean go around and get it off blacklists before you actually start using it as mail server. Test it here: https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx Once that's done, things like SPF, DKIM, DMARC are time consuming to set up, but not particularly hard or tricky, and there are tonnes of good guides out there.
- jlelse 8y ago
  The problem is that for some people it's even to hard to switch to another provider than Gmail, how are they supposed to setup their own mail server?
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    If you have an ISP, that ISP is providing you email _right now_. Not being able to find another provider isn't an issue.
- viraptor 8y ago
  > you do need your clean own ipv4 address Actually you need to clean /24 your address belongs to. Some people use blacklists which assign reputation to the whole /24 and unless you control that, you're going to have a bad day. (Yes, it's a really silly idea to use those lists, but some people do. And you want their users to get your emails.)
- bradleyjg 8y ago
  I had my own mail service. I switched to gmail when it first came out because the spam filtering was much much better than anything than available to the public. Kind of like why I switched from altavista to google search. What's the spam filtering picture like for DIY these days?
  - amaccuish 8y ago
    I use rspamd. Works really well for me.
  - pmlnr 8y ago
    Greylisting + weighted dnsbl from multiple sources stops the majority of it. The remaining can be caught even with bogofilter.
    - bradleyjg 8y ago
      How's the false positive rate?
jlelse 8y ago
It is so sad. Isn't email meant to be decentralized and distributed? Instead people go to Gmail although it's full of ads and Google is abusing their privacy. The death of Google Inbox (which used to have a strong fan group) could have been an opportunity for many users instead of using Gmail switching to another email provider, instead they just install another client and continue using Gmail. I really hope Gmail is going to implement harder restrictions against those clients, so that people finally understand that Gmail is bad and look for other options.
alluro2 8y ago
Doing my part. I've been an Inbox user ever since it was released, and liked it due to how much simpler it was to keep the inbox clean, and a much improved layout and usability over regular Gmail (centered, cleaner layout, grouping by day / age etc). But lack of attention to the product for smallest basic things (e.g. number of unread messages in tab title) for years, and eventually announcement of shutdown, with simultaneous missteps with Chrome, really did it for me. Looking at a garbled mess that is Gmail UI on a larger resolution was not an option. Aqua Mail is amazingly customizable for Android, Postbox works nicely on OSX, and Firefox is better than ever and much easier to go back to than I expected. Not looking back for sure. If only I could get rid of my Gmail address as well, but that's significantly harder...
jokoon 8y ago
I have thought about using something else than gmail, but it seems hard to find something reliable enough, free, that will still be there in 10 years, which a good enough spam filter, with customizable filters and labels. Changing one's email address is not a trivial task, I would not do it if I would be sure it's worth it. I totally understand the political issues of privacy and monopolies, but fighting those by not using gmail is not going to improve things that much. Everybody knows privacy is an issue, but switching to a privacy-oriented mail provider will also make somebody rich over some paranoia, and it won't necessarily make things more secure.
- josteink 8y ago
  > it seems hard to find something reliable enough, free I’m sure if you decide that your privacy and the health of the Internet holds value to you (as in, you’re willing to put your money where your mouth is), finding good options will be much easier. Personally I use a paid FastMail-account which I’m super-happy about, but I’ve heard there are other good options out there too. But if you don’t want to pay for a core service you use every day, for everything, you can’t complain about that service degrading, now can you?
- Thev00d00 8y ago
  You have to pay for it basically. My Fastmail subscription is absolutely worth it.
- zie 8y ago
  If you buy a domain through gandi.net, they give you 2 email addresses free. They use SOGO, so it's decent.
estomagordo 8y ago
I like Gmail. I like Chrome. Why would I sacrifice my productivity for some abstract over-arching notion of "balance"?
- mikl 8y ago
  Because you might not like where Google takes Gmail or Chrome in the future. Like when we had a decade of zero progress in web technology because Microsoft was holding everyone back with their virtual Internet Explorer monopoly.
  - estomagordo 8y ago
    Why would I not simply stop using them at the point where I no longer like them?
    - jolmg 8y ago
      Because by then the web might not work without Chrome.
      - estomagordo 8y ago
        Okay. And this interfers with my routines, how?
        jolmg 8y ago
        When did I say it interfered with your routines?
- tremon 8y ago
  In other words, "fuck you, got mine" ?
  - estomagordo 8y ago
    Why would my completely reasonable action be interpreted as something rude? There's no "you" featured in my decision.

pmlnr 8y ago

I've been hosting my own mail for more, than a decade. It pays off; eg. I can access it even in China, unlike gmail. Despite the myths, it's not _that_ hard to set it up, but you do need your clean own ipv4 address for everything to go smooth - I mean go around and get it off blacklists before you actually start using it as mail server. Test it here: https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx Once that's done, things like SPF, DKIM, DMARC are time consuming to set up, but not particularly hard or tricky, and there are tonnes of good guides out there.

jlelse 8y ago
The problem is that for some people it's even to hard to switch to another provider than Gmail, how are they supposed to setup their own mail server?
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  If you have an ISP, that ISP is providing you email _right now_. Not being able to find another provider isn't an issue.
viraptor 8y ago
> you do need your clean own ipv4 address Actually you need to clean /24 your address belongs to. Some people use blacklists which assign reputation to the whole /24 and unless you control that, you're going to have a bad day. (Yes, it's a really silly idea to use those lists, but some people do. And you want their users to get your emails.)
bradleyjg 8y ago
I had my own mail service. I switched to gmail when it first came out because the spam filtering was much much better than anything than available to the public. Kind of like why I switched from altavista to google search. What's the spam filtering picture like for DIY these days?
- amaccuish 8y ago
  I use rspamd. Works really well for me.
- pmlnr 8y ago
  Greylisting + weighted dnsbl from multiple sources stops the majority of it. The remaining can be caught even with bogofilter.
  - bradleyjg 8y ago
    How's the false positive rate?

jlelse 8y ago

It is so sad. Isn't email meant to be decentralized and distributed? Instead people go to Gmail although it's full of ads and Google is abusing their privacy. The death of Google Inbox (which used to have a strong fan group) could have been an opportunity for many users instead of using Gmail switching to another email provider, instead they just install another client and continue using Gmail. I really hope Gmail is going to implement harder restrictions against those clients, so that people finally understand that Gmail is bad and look for other options.

alluro2 8y ago

Doing my part. I've been an Inbox user ever since it was released, and liked it due to how much simpler it was to keep the inbox clean, and a much improved layout and usability over regular Gmail (centered, cleaner layout, grouping by day / age etc). But lack of attention to the product for smallest basic things (e.g. number of unread messages in tab title) for years, and eventually announcement of shutdown, with simultaneous missteps with Chrome, really did it for me. Looking at a garbled mess that is Gmail UI on a larger resolution was not an option. Aqua Mail is amazingly customizable for Android, Postbox works nicely on OSX, and Firefox is better than ever and much easier to go back to than I expected. Not looking back for sure. If only I could get rid of my Gmail address as well, but that's significantly harder...

jokoon 8y ago

I have thought about using something else than gmail, but it seems hard to find something reliable enough, free, that will still be there in 10 years, which a good enough spam filter, with customizable filters and labels. Changing one's email address is not a trivial task, I would not do it if I would be sure it's worth it. I totally understand the political issues of privacy and monopolies, but fighting those by not using gmail is not going to improve things that much. Everybody knows privacy is an issue, but switching to a privacy-oriented mail provider will also make somebody rich over some paranoia, and it won't necessarily make things more secure.

josteink 8y ago
> it seems hard to find something reliable enough, free I’m sure if you decide that your privacy and the health of the Internet holds value to you (as in, you’re willing to put your money where your mouth is), finding good options will be much easier. Personally I use a paid FastMail-account which I’m super-happy about, but I’ve heard there are other good options out there too. But if you don’t want to pay for a core service you use every day, for everything, you can’t complain about that service degrading, now can you?
Thev00d00 8y ago
You have to pay for it basically. My Fastmail subscription is absolutely worth it.
zie 8y ago
If you buy a domain through gandi.net, they give you 2 email addresses free. They use SOGO, so it's decent.

estomagordo 8y ago

I like Gmail. I like Chrome. Why would I sacrifice my productivity for some abstract over-arching notion of "balance"?

mikl 8y ago
Because you might not like where Google takes Gmail or Chrome in the future. Like when we had a decade of zero progress in web technology because Microsoft was holding everyone back with their virtual Internet Explorer monopoly.
- estomagordo 8y ago
  Why would I not simply stop using them at the point where I no longer like them?
  - jolmg 8y ago
    Because by then the web might not work without Chrome.
    - estomagordo 8y ago
      Okay. And this interfers with my routines, how?
      - jolmg 8y ago
        When did I say it interfered with your routines?
tremon 8y ago
In other words, "fuck you, got mine" ?
- estomagordo 8y ago
  Why would my completely reasonable action be interpreted as something rude? There's no "you" featured in my decision.