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Not surprising given that they don't tax electric cars and that normal petrol cars have taxes that can be around 100%, doubling their value. Also, electric car

Not surprising given that they don't tax electric cars and that normal petrol cars have taxes that can be around 100%, doubling their value. Also, electric cars in Norway have lots of other incentives: reduced road tolls, registration fees, and petrol is heavily taxed.

rconti 8y ago
And Model 3 deliveries started either at the end of February or early March, meaning a lot of pent up demands/orders are being satisfied all at once.
- mitchellgoffpc 8y ago
  True, but Tesla is still only selling the AWD Model 3 variants in Europe right now, which start at ~$50k USD plus import duties and VAT. Even with government subsidies that’s still a really expensive car for most people. I’m expecting an even larger burst of orders once the RWD variants start shipping to Europe.
  - lb1lf 8y ago
    Keep in mind that in Norway, fossil cars are (and have been for a long time) taxed to high heaven. It is not uncommon for a car too double its cost as it is being taxed upon import. Hence, in a number of other markets a $50k Tesla 3 is competing against a $25k (or whatever) Golf. In Norway, a $50k Tesla 3 is competing against a $50k Golf. (The numbers are just pulled out of a hat, but they illustrate the point; Norway is a very lucrative market to sell premium electric cars in as the tax advantages relative to fossil cars make premium EVs about as expensive as run-of-the-mill fossils - and they have a few other advantages like reduced tolls, driving in bus lanes &c.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
josteink 8y ago
> normal petrol cars have taxes that can be around 100%, doubling their value. Id rather phrase that doubling their cost (making their relative value much lower).
angott 8y ago
Also, keep in mind the extremely high salaries in Norway. Italy or Greece could decide to offer the same tax benefits, but still very few people would be able to afford a Tesla.
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  I don't know why you got downvoted. Norway being quite wealthy is obviously a factor.
  - tyfon 8y ago
    Most of the electric cars sold here are leafs and e-golfs though. A tesla is still around 800k NOK which is a little less than twice the average annual gross salary or a quarter house (unless you live around Oslo or Stavanger). I'm driving a toyota avensis myself, the test drive of a model s didn't give a good impression. I'm also not prepared to buy a car that expensive, even with taxes my toyota was 350k NOK. Hopefully there will be long range electric cars from some other manufacturer soon. I do have some hope for the solid battery tech that toyota is developing now.
    - zemvpferreira 8y ago
      Still. I’m in Portugal and a Tesla costs 5-10x the average annual salary. An e-golf 2-3x I believe. Wealth matters.
- paavoova 8y ago
  Society's purchasing power worries me. How environmentally sustainable is it to replace all the billions of cars with electric? And then decades later, perhaps even under a decade given how fast some technologies develop, how sustainable is it to replace these electric vehicles with newer models? If people have the money, that's what they're going to do. And specifically in regards to Norway, the country exports its oil to other countries and owns its wealth to oil, being one of the largest exporters. So while headlines on electric car adoption are nice, they really miss the big picture.
gnicholas 8y ago
I was surprised the article didn't mention the upfront tax savings. Free parking and tolls are nice and all (and were mentioned), but I'd imagine the big incentive is the $40k-$100k upfront savings.
gridlockd 8y ago
Kind of ironic for Norway to export all this petrol for cars to burn in other countries and then use some of that money to make domestic cars run on electricity.
- gsich 8y ago
  It's probably the only country that exports oil and is not a shithole (for a lack of better wording), or a dictatorship. Edit: with oil being the highest export
  - nickelcitymario 8y ago
    Canada exports oil. We are neither a shithole nor a dictatorship.
    - munk-a 8y ago
      As a progressive and hip vancouverite... the part of canada that exports oil is a bit of a shithole and rather authoritarian when it comes to their dealings with the other provinces (thanks for the pipeline alberta!)
      - nickelcitymario 8y ago
        While I don't like the Alberta government, there's nothing authoritarian about them fighting for their own self-interest. Every province tries to do this. Some have more leverage than others. And it's a beautiful province full of wonderful people, in my humble opinion. (So is B.C. I'm from Ontario, for what it's worth.)
    - gsich 8y ago
      I should have added: country with oil as highest export good.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    The US exports oil, so which is it - a shithole or dictatorship according to you?
rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
Are you saying that there's some kind of externalities at play here? Because I can think of a few other externalities that help non-EV far more than the ones you mentioned (not taxing them for ruining our health and climate, for a start). This all seems an overdue correction to me. But I'd go further and support non-individual transportation more, too.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Well, if you're going to blame non-EV cars for all sorts of negative externalities, you're going to need to figure out how to credit them for the positive externalities too. That's a tall order.
  - beefield 8y ago
    You happen to have any examples of positive externalities non-EV cars have that EV cars do not have?
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      Not the OP. And this is not for cars, specifically, but we're a very long way away from electric fire trucks, ambulances, and construction equipment. Also, I'm not sure what the OP is on about with this: not taxing them for ruining our health and climate, for a start Since electric cars aren't taxed, either, that's just playing with numbers.
      - douglasisshiny 8y ago
        I believe the op is suggesting that there have been significant deferred costs associated with burning fossil fuels.
      - sbierwagen 8y ago
        Why can't you electrify ambulances? They're specialized taxis, many short trips, spending a lot of time parked. Only time you need long range is for patient transfer between hospitals. Fire trucks only make short trips, and (ideally) have a tiny capacity ratio. Ditto for construction vehicles, which rarely travel long distances, often want to be heavy for greater traction, and can have surprisingly low power output. (The Cat D5K2 weighs 20,000 pounds but only has a 105 HP engine: https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/small-dozers/1000001276.html https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/smal... )
vinni2 8y ago
These incentives won’t be permanent though. Once a desired target for electric vehicles hit all the incentives will be taken away. Like they did in Denmark. Which dropped Tesla sales dramatically! https://nordic.businessinsider.com/teslas-sales-fell-a-jaw-dropping-94-in-denmark-last-year--and-elon-musk-could-see-it-from-miles-away-2017-6/ https://nordic.businessinsider.com/teslas-sales-fell-a-jaw-d...

rconti 8y ago

And Model 3 deliveries started either at the end of February or early March, meaning a lot of pent up demands/orders are being satisfied all at once.

mitchellgoffpc 8y ago
True, but Tesla is still only selling the AWD Model 3 variants in Europe right now, which start at ~$50k USD plus import duties and VAT. Even with government subsidies that’s still a really expensive car for most people. I’m expecting an even larger burst of orders once the RWD variants start shipping to Europe.
- lb1lf 8y ago
  Keep in mind that in Norway, fossil cars are (and have been for a long time) taxed to high heaven. It is not uncommon for a car too double its cost as it is being taxed upon import. Hence, in a number of other markets a $50k Tesla 3 is competing against a $25k (or whatever) Golf. In Norway, a $50k Tesla 3 is competing against a $50k Golf. (The numbers are just pulled out of a hat, but they illustrate the point; Norway is a very lucrative market to sell premium electric cars in as the tax advantages relative to fossil cars make premium EVs about as expensive as run-of-the-mill fossils - and they have a few other advantages like reduced tolls, driving in bus lanes &c.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

josteink 8y ago

> normal petrol cars have taxes that can be around 100%, doubling their value. Id rather phrase that doubling their cost (making their relative value much lower).

angott 8y ago

Also, keep in mind the extremely high salaries in Norway. Italy or Greece could decide to offer the same tax benefits, but still very few people would be able to afford a Tesla.

TulliusCicero 8y ago
I don't know why you got downvoted. Norway being quite wealthy is obviously a factor.
- tyfon 8y ago
  Most of the electric cars sold here are leafs and e-golfs though. A tesla is still around 800k NOK which is a little less than twice the average annual gross salary or a quarter house (unless you live around Oslo or Stavanger). I'm driving a toyota avensis myself, the test drive of a model s didn't give a good impression. I'm also not prepared to buy a car that expensive, even with taxes my toyota was 350k NOK. Hopefully there will be long range electric cars from some other manufacturer soon. I do have some hope for the solid battery tech that toyota is developing now.
  - zemvpferreira 8y ago
    Still. I’m in Portugal and a Tesla costs 5-10x the average annual salary. An e-golf 2-3x I believe. Wealth matters.
paavoova 8y ago
Society's purchasing power worries me. How environmentally sustainable is it to replace all the billions of cars with electric? And then decades later, perhaps even under a decade given how fast some technologies develop, how sustainable is it to replace these electric vehicles with newer models? If people have the money, that's what they're going to do. And specifically in regards to Norway, the country exports its oil to other countries and owns its wealth to oil, being one of the largest exporters. So while headlines on electric car adoption are nice, they really miss the big picture.

gnicholas 8y ago

I was surprised the article didn't mention the upfront tax savings. Free parking and tolls are nice and all (and were mentioned), but I'd imagine the big incentive is the $40k-$100k upfront savings.

gridlockd 8y ago

Kind of ironic for Norway to export all this petrol for cars to burn in other countries and then use some of that money to make domestic cars run on electricity.

gsich 8y ago
It's probably the only country that exports oil and is not a shithole (for a lack of better wording), or a dictatorship. Edit: with oil being the highest export
- nickelcitymario 8y ago
  Canada exports oil. We are neither a shithole nor a dictatorship.
  - munk-a 8y ago
    As a progressive and hip vancouverite... the part of canada that exports oil is a bit of a shithole and rather authoritarian when it comes to their dealings with the other provinces (thanks for the pipeline alberta!)
    - nickelcitymario 8y ago
      While I don't like the Alberta government, there's nothing authoritarian about them fighting for their own self-interest. Every province tries to do this. Some have more leverage than others. And it's a beautiful province full of wonderful people, in my humble opinion. (So is B.C. I'm from Ontario, for what it's worth.)
  - gsich 8y ago
    I should have added: country with oil as highest export good.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  The US exports oil, so which is it - a shithole or dictatorship according to you?

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago

Are you saying that there's some kind of externalities at play here? Because I can think of a few other externalities that help non-EV far more than the ones you mentioned (not taxing them for ruining our health and climate, for a start). This all seems an overdue correction to me. But I'd go further and support non-individual transportation more, too.

rootusrootus 8y ago
Well, if you're going to blame non-EV cars for all sorts of negative externalities, you're going to need to figure out how to credit them for the positive externalities too. That's a tall order.
- beefield 8y ago
  You happen to have any examples of positive externalities non-EV cars have that EV cars do not have?
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    Not the OP. And this is not for cars, specifically, but we're a very long way away from electric fire trucks, ambulances, and construction equipment. Also, I'm not sure what the OP is on about with this: not taxing them for ruining our health and climate, for a start Since electric cars aren't taxed, either, that's just playing with numbers.
    - douglasisshiny 8y ago
      I believe the op is suggesting that there have been significant deferred costs associated with burning fossil fuels.
    - sbierwagen 8y ago
      Why can't you electrify ambulances? They're specialized taxis, many short trips, spending a lot of time parked. Only time you need long range is for patient transfer between hospitals. Fire trucks only make short trips, and (ideally) have a tiny capacity ratio. Ditto for construction vehicles, which rarely travel long distances, often want to be heavy for greater traction, and can have surprisingly low power output. (The Cat D5K2 weighs 20,000 pounds but only has a 105 HP engine: https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/small-dozers/1000001276.html https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/smal... )

vinni2 8y ago

These incentives won’t be permanent though. Once a desired target for electric vehicles hit all the incentives will be taken away. Like they did in Denmark. Which dropped Tesla sales dramatically! https://nordic.businessinsider.com/teslas-sales-fell-a-jaw-dropping-94-in-denmark-last-year--and-elon-musk-could-see-it-from-miles-away-2017-6/ https://nordic.businessinsider.com/teslas-sales-fell-a-jaw-d...