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The message it sends to me is, never visit America. I appreciate horrible things likely happen in my own country, but this is just disgusting.
by alex_hitchins 8y ago
The message it sends to me is, never visit America. I appreciate horrible things likely happen in my own country, but this is just disgusting.
- a012 8y agoOr simply just leave yours at home, buy a burner phone on arrival.
- saiya-jin 8y agoFor business? Yes if I have to, but thank god I don't. For leisure? I mean, seriously, who would shell their own free time and money and risk being treated like this? You get 1000x better treatment in Iran as a visitor for example. In fact, any country not currently in some sort of civil war is a better idea for a visit than US.
- ihattendorf 8y ago> You get 1000x better treatment in Iran as a visitor for example. Sure, as long as you aren't LGBTQ or a woman.
- orwin 8y agoPeople in Charleston WV are super nice (but we were caucasian so it might have helped). They might be _sightly_ surprised that someone from another country chose their place as a vacation/tourist spot however (despite amazing rivers).
- mikepurvis 8y agoThere's a cost to doing that. I guess it depends just how badly you need to travel to the US, but as a Canadian citizen, I see no reason to endanger myself or my family by traveling there at the current time. Walt Disney World will still be there in 2021.
- philsnow 8y ago> Walt Disney World will still be there in 2021 Border policy won't change by 2021 either, at least not for the better.
- zanny 8y agoHey we could still see a sea change at the US federal level of either progressive or adherent libertarian representatives that curtail the fear / police / surveillance state in the 2020 election. Its about as likely as bitcoin taking over the world economy, but hey we all have to cling to false hope sometimes.
- veryworried 8y agoEven if a Democratic regime takes over in 2021 I promise you it will be no different. One of the largest expanses of the surveillance state was a consequence of the previous President, and there is no reason to believe that won’t continue into the foreseeable future.
- lgregg 8y ago> Walt Disney World will still be there in 2021. I think you'll have to wait awhile. These policy tools have been under both parties starting with GWB far as the initial PATRIOT Act (I think?). Right now, we're at a point where the USA might, but unlikely, go back to an isolationist policy far as borders. At a meta level, this is a debate around internationalism vs globalism. Currently, Earth is in an era of internationalism. There is a desire by lots of people to move towards Globalism.
- alex_hitchins 8y agoI'd rather save my money and just not visit. I don't see anything that could out balance all the negatives. Many millions of Americans are lovely people who I'd donate a kidney to. I'd just not want to put myself through all that for so little gain.
- okatsu 8y agoI used to say that until I started doing sports competitions and had to travel there repeatedly. I was admittedly worried because of my ethnicity but it went fine (a Canadian passport and NEXUS membership might've helped...you also wouldn't find much on my phone other than sports memes, as much as I care about my privacy). Similarly in the game development community, lots of people complain about customs but then go to GDC every year. I guess my point is that as long as America continues being a pillar of the world, people (like myself!) will continue putting their principles aside and comply, and the system will have no reason to change. I hope you'll last longer than I did. :) Edit for clarifications.
- everdrive 8y agoThe other thing to consider is that a burner phone will look quite suspicious.
- jeltz 8y agoThey are just cheap smartphones these days. Do they really profile people because their smartphones look too cheap?
- max76 8y agoSometimes? If I see a person in their 20s or 30s that have other status items (expensive clothes/accessories) but a $50 smartphone I assume something isn't quite right.
- tzs 8y agoSay that you take a burner when traveling abroad because you don't trust foreign governments to accord you the same civil rights protections against unreasonable searches that the United States does.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- DigiMortal 8y agoAmerica is awesome, I appreciate and know how lucky we are to be here.
- saiya-jin 8y ago> America is awesome, I appreciate and know how lucky we are to be here. In which regard? Compared to which place?
- DigiMortal 8y agoWe lead the world in R&D, we aren't in a surveillance state like China (~1.3B people), we aren't undeveloped, we have the US dollar - the commanding world currency. We develop the best military technology, space technology, most all technology. We issue the most patents, by far. We (as people) have more rights than most all other nations and we led many other rights to attain rights for their own citizens. We protect Europe and the West. We will continue leading the galaxy in space development. We have the best talent in the world. We are Earth's shining civilization.
- mav3rick 8y agoWe can't afford healthcare for our people.
- tyfon 8y agoThat's my take as well and has been for a while. Even if I'm not of a segment of people that gets selected for "random searches" I don't trust them to believe I have no facebook account etc when they ask for the password. The risk of travelling there is simply too high now.
- gist 8y ago> the message it sends to me is, never visit America Message? So you read one story and a bunch of HN comments and that is how you decide?
- zimmund 8y agoOP didn't say it was a decision, just the message perceived. If you live outside the US, hearing stories or reading what happens to others is enough to know these things happen, anyway.
- wang_li 8y agoReading a story like this, which is based entirely upon the information provided by Gal, and drawing any widespread conclusion about travel into the US is utterly irrational. From this story there is zero ability to determine if it really happened, or assuming it happened, you have no idea what the actual interactions were like between Gal and CBP agents. Some of the facts presented don't even make sense. You don't take the fifth when refusing a search. You're relying on the fourth amendment and refusing to consent to a search. Searches like this having nothing to do with self incrimination.
- cmrdporcupine 8y agoNo, honestly, the rest of the world has been getting this message from the US since 9/11.
- GordonS 8y agoIt's not just one story though - there have been plenty stories and comments on HN, as well as other places. I'd be surprised if anyone who regularly travels to the US hasn't found it to be extremely unpleasant at times. A while back I spent 6 months or so going back and forth from the UK to Houston or Atlanta, and every time I absolutely hated going through immigration. I've travelled to dozens of countries, and literally everywhere I've found the border guards to be friendly - except the US. Every time they behaved like power-hungry bullies, or I saw them behaving that way towards others. One time I travelled with a female colleague who was basically harassed by ridiculous questions from a very angry and loud border guard for no reason at all. He wasn't satisfied until she was in tears. Another time there was a really long queue after getting off a flight (think it took over an hour to get to the desk), and there was a pregnant woman in the queue who seemed unwell and wanted to sit down - a guard shouted at her to stay in line, refused to get her a chair, and refused to let her jump forward in the queue (despite prompting from willing fellow passengers). So the reason people don't want to travel to the US? Because it's a fucking horrible experience.
- monetus 8y agoHold fast for now, and watch for when the trends of our enforcement change.
- txcwpalpha 8y agoI think you mean "never visit Anywhere", since the UK (where you say you're from) does this exact same type of search and seizure, even to UK citizens. You could be subject to it when returning home from any trip abroad, not just the US.
- alex_hitchins 8y ago> I appreciate horrible things likely happen in my own country Yes, I know (as stated above). By no means am I saying it couldn't. Still, it doesn't excuse Americas practices in any way.