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Network Determines Success More Than People Realize

• PlasticTank 8y ago
  I'm quite sure people do realize this hence the saying "It's not what you know but who you know"
  • holografix 8y ago
    If that’s what true no one would know anything and we’d still be wondering how to cook our food when forest fires didn’t naturally occur.
  • chrisweekly 8y ago
    In practice it's more like "It's not who you know, it's who knows you."
    • pengstrom 8y ago
      I think the "know" is meant to be the symmetrical kind.
      • chrisweekly 8y ago
        Sure -- but the emphasis belongs w/ the other (who is in a position to help you).
• Shaddox 8y ago
  Solid advice but I'm still trying to build my value ... so far I am worthless. I think the networking aspect itself is also an aspect of being at the right place at the right time. One can't ask others to pull strings unless you can pull something yourself.
  • q-base 8y ago
    Step 0: Stop calling yourself worthless!
    • the_fonz 8y ago
      Corollary to Dunning-Kruger perhaps: the productive view themselves as inadequate, leading to a number of insecurities, while the boorish liabilities view themselves as masterful, omnipotent polyglots.
• bambax 8y ago
  "80% of success is showing up" -- Woody Allen (maybe). Not the same thing exactly, but a network helps you be at the right place at the right time.
• dorkwood 8y ago
  I use to think of networking as “going to events and handing out my business card”, which I could never quite bring myself to do. I figured I just wasn’t cut out for the whole networking thing. What I ended up realising after looking back over my career was that I’ve been networking this whole time without even meaning to. By generally working hard and being friendly those who have come and gone over the years, I now have a pretty sizeable network of people who will vouch for me. If someone ever asks me for networking advice, it will be “find a job where other people are doing the same thing as you, and then become someone they enjoy working with”.
  • agumonkey 8y ago
    that's proper networking, but networking can also means oligarchy~ where you just get inside groups because people know you and you're just not bad enough to get the boot.
  • leereeves 8y ago
    The dark side of that is discrimination when "someone they enjoy working with" is based on more than a friendly attitude and hard work. And I'm not just talking about the politically favored and protected groups. I'd say it applies even more so to groups that don't get that political support.
    • bilbo0s 8y ago
      To be fair, everyone kind of already knew that "it's all about who you know", so to speak. So the fact that disenfranchised people tend to stay disenfranchised is not really news to most people who followed the inevitable implications of that adage.
      • devoply 8y ago
        Nobody really understands or digs into the implications. They simply assume that if they are successful it's because they are great people while others are not great or as smart or hard working and that's why they suck. It's very difficult for privilege to understand implicit privilege... or for those looking to fix the situation to not piss people off as it's seen with those that are already in the in-group as being unfair.
• SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  More than who realizes? Having been in business for 10 years now I'll tell you for free that networking is everything.
  • charlesdm 8y ago
    With the right people, yes. You generally don't meet those at "networking" events. If anything, you'll find other peddlers trying to sell you something. You do meet those by throwing dinner parties, talking to and meeting interesting people, going to charity events, and through hobbies.
    • ClassyJacket 8y ago
      " If anything, you'll find other peddlers trying to sell you something." I just got back from a "networking" event and this is 100% accurate.
    • ghaff 8y ago
      It's why "networking" often gets a bad rep. So many of these events are, as you say, people passing out business cards looking for consulting ops, a job, etc. By contrast, socializing, participating in various activities, staying in touch with former colleagues, and so forth is very valuable. Personally, every job I've had since the first post-graduation one has been through someone I knew. None were jobs I "applied for."
    • whytaka 8y ago
      I would appreciate an intro course on this.
      • charlesdm 8y ago
        It's a bit hard to write this down in a HN comment. I would guess the best answer to that is, be genuinely curious about other people.
        • doorbellguy 8y ago
• zzzcpan 8y ago
  Too much confirmation bias in the article. Of course if you like networking you want to justify spending time on it. Realistically, though, it's better to be known of by many people, than to meet just a few people in person on the off chance this could help you. Given a choice people would rather choose who they know of, than someone they don't. This is how marketing, advertising works. Hence why the author himself is spending time writing articles and tries to reach many people, not meeting them in person.
• bradam 8y ago
  Network scientist Zsolt Barabási said [1] that in his latest book that networking is one of the most important thing to do, if you want to be successful. Of course, first you need to get some valuable skills, but especially in careers where the performance can’t be ordered (e.g: art, design) the only thing that matters is to know people who are well known. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Formula-Universal-Laws-Success/dp/0316505498 https://www.amazon.com/Formula-Universal-Laws-Success/dp/031...
  • KingFelix 8y ago
    His book was pretty good, skimmed through some of the extra examples, but networking is key. I consider myself a super connector, and more often than not find myself in the right place at the right time, making connections for friends, colleagues, acquaintances, etc. I love bringing people together, changing the world ~
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• leowoo91 8y ago
  It did in past, it doesn't mean it still works. Sometimes, networks can bring more damage than help because of individual instabilities (e.g. snowflakes). For all the reasons, it looks harder to have a healthy network as people used to have 20 years ago, imho.
  • kodz4 8y ago
    You are right about damage it can do. But it also does good. Newton/Maxwell/Faraday were part of very interesting networks. Their results could have easily come out of Italy, France, India or China if better networks existed there. The better we understand networks, the better we get at building useful ones. No one questions the amount of effort/resources/time that goes into constructing a world class sports team. That is only possible with a right network. And in depth study of human networks is a new thing because historically where was the data? As we have got more interconnected, in more and more fields people are increasing how much they focus on Networks. Niall Ferguson's recent book The Square and The Tower, is all about when networks succeed and when they fail using a whole bunch of key events from History. Thomas Malone's recent Superminds the same thing applied to businesses. We are just getting started at how we apply this knowledge. Computational Social/Political Science departments are springing up all over the place. Just adding one connection or deleting one connection in a graph of people is all it takes to create major change.
    • leowoo91 8y ago
      Thank you for the good stuff, I'll have a look.
• wallflower 8y ago
  I like this definition of who is in your network that I came across years ago. Someone is in your network if they can recognize you if they see you in person (name tags do not count), know what you were last working on, and you had some contact with them in the last three months. We may argue that having someone recognize you in person is not a hard requirement in this age.
  • jedberg 8y ago
    My friends are so polyglot that I don't even know what my best friends are working on 1/2 the time. But I can tell you what they were last working on.
    • wallflower 8y ago
      Yes, to clarify, I meant exactly what you said: the point-of-time snapshot of when you last heard from them
• api 8y ago
  At this point it should be obvious that network effects of every kind are the largest single determining factor in success, yet so many continue to believe in naive meritocracy.
  • airstrike 8y ago
    One could argue there is merit in building a large, meaningful network
    • api 8y ago
      Perhaps, but this is only one narrow kind of merit and it's responsible for a disproportionately large fraction of the outcome. Networks also have gravitational type dynamics that accrue more network influence to existing influencers, so there's a huge path dependent effect where some nodes get rich network-wise by just being lucky or first.
      • airstrike 8y ago
        If those nodes are the ones that get results from leveraging their networks, then it's better for the company. I'm not saying it's "fair", just that one could argue networks are a good proxy for results, so it makes sense to reward them from the company's perspective.
        • api 8y ago
          > good proxy for The idea that it's good or clever to use rough proxies for things is one of the worse ideas to spread kind of virally through various intellectual communities in recent years. I feel like it may have spread via Less Wrong or some similar place but I'm not sure and it doesn't really matter. Proxies for things are something you use when you can't get at the underlying reality directly. All proxies hide something and all proxies confound by mixing inputs in often non-linear and unknown ways. In the human realm the use of proxies is a source of unfairness and injustice, so it's particularly important to avoid them there whenever it's possible. Not using proxies means dealing more directly with reality. "Reason from first principles, not by analogy."
• ZeroFries 8y ago
  How do those who move often (or at least a few times in their lives) manage to re-establish a network in the areas they move to? I think a lot of the reason people are reluctant to move for better opportunities on paper is the fear of the sudden lack of network.
  • breakpointalpha 8y ago
    This is a real problem that I have faced on more than one occasion. Best advice I can offer is "clubs", but I've had mixed success. By clubs I mean, tennis clubs, golf clubs, social clubs, etc. This is where church used to have a big part to play in the social fabric of America.
    • ghaff 8y ago
      Most of my professional networking is virtual mixed in with traveling to some events (and, of course, work colleagues though I work remotely). I do local activities with a couple clubs as well as more ad hoc things, which is good from a social perspective, but TBH it's never been especially relevant from a professional/job perspective.
  • bigbaguette 8y ago
    Very relevant, and after a couple years away, coming back home and see the network you had faded away as well.
    • kkarakk 8y ago
      well ofc if you're a strong link in that network it will fade away - it's not a network in that case just a string of people you know. networking also includes introducing people who can help each other and cross pollination so the mesh is strong.
  • heurist 8y ago
    By joining local institutions and listening for opportunities, I assume.
  • 8y ago
• ds0 8y ago
  Sorry to go on a tangent, but that's John Lurie on the left in the second photo by Andy Warhol. I'm surprised to see he brushed shoulders with Basquiat and the rest.
• isolli 8y ago
  It reminds me of this research [0] showing that sons of wealthy slave owners (who presumably lost a large chunk of their "wealth" after the civil war) had caught up or surpassed sons from similarly wealthy households by 1880. Conclusion: "This paper adds another data point to our understanding of intergenerational wealth transmission. Our conclusion: it’s not the resources here, it’s the social connections." [0] https://twitter.com/leah_boustan/status/1112689110819442690 https://twitter.com/leah_boustan/status/1112689110819442690
  • HarryHirsch 8y ago
    For a more recent example, see nail parlors in the US. They were started by officers from the Vietnamese army who had come as refugees to the country. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32544343 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32544343
  • gwern 8y ago
    It's an amazing paper but their interpretation of the results that "it's all social connections" is completely unsupported by their evidence and more consistent with standard human-capital / genetic inheritance.
    • danharaj 8y ago
      Could you elaborate?
  • papermill 8y ago
    That's interesting but I guess expected since a major component of success is access to power and capital. I remember reading something a while back that a significant portion of the post-war japanese and german economy, industry and government were controlled by the descendents of vanquished elites. I wonder how the children of our politicians and business elites do compared to ordinary folks? In the US, we have been brainwashed with the propaganda about meritocracy that we blindly believe as an absolute truth as children. It's only when we get older we realize that success has a lot more to do with connections than hard work.
  • 8y ago
• throwApr19 8y ago
  From my personal point of view networking is everything or at least 99%. I want to share my experience with you since I hold the people in this forum in high regard. Not paying attention to this "social" issues has deeply affected my career and now I'm at a point where there are few opportunities left for me (mainly due to age, mid 30s now). I really need some help now as I don't know how to turn my life around, this is very important for me as I have a wife + daughter that expect me to be their primary provider. Any good intended advice to improve on this will be greatly appreciated. I prefer to be an introvert (but I am not shy) person and do not rapidly establish strong relationships with the people around me. I am the kind of person that has 3 or 4 friends at most, goes to work, does what it needs to do without much fanfare and goes back home to sleep/read. I've been like this since I was in high school. This was a personal choice back then, my reasoning was: "study hard, work hard and the rest will come to you". I come from a low-middle class family that made themselves from the ground, as a result, work ethics are very deeply ingrained in my principles. I have never failed to deliver what I promise on a school or work related environment. I do not mean to offend anyone with this but I have to say it just to further clarify my situation: I do not have any physical or mental disabilities, I dress appropriately, I'm white (although not American/European) and I do not behave in an awkward manner. Not paying attention to networking while I was in school and at previous jobs has severely limited my options for professional development. I almost never get good job offers, promotions or even proper acknowledgement for the things I do. They mostly go to people around me, some of whom severely lack what's needed for the job, mainly due to their closeness to someone at HR, got tipped off by some friend, ... you get the idea. As a result of this, despite having done everything "good", my career really never took off. I'm stuck in the same kind of developer job as I had 10 years ago. Now the walls are closing in since people raise an eyebrow when they see my age, I cannot just go and hunt for jobs as easily as I could five years ago. Right now, I'm at a terrible company and I truly hate my current job () I don't want to go in detail as I'm really not like that). I cannot just leave since I have bills to pay and also because I'm scared of not finding anything else. I know almost no-one in the industry and my few friends have different ways of life. I would like to read some practical advice on how may I expand my reach to (hopefully) find better job prospects. Among other things, I tried to join some related meetups in my area, but honestly they are mostly made up of people who take it as a hobby (not that there's anything wrong with that). I truly don't know what else I could do.
• Nasrudith 8y ago
  I can't help but wonder about the tautologies of such a system. If you only hire people with silly hats and spend 70% of their time on sillier hats you are missing out on actual talent with stupid tautologies instead of anything of intrinsic worth. Essentially I suspect that networks don't bring success in many cases but prevent it in others. The real question is what keeps networks from being collective madness in service of themselves? The closest thing I have found is competition smacking them in the face with objective reality. History and the present is rife with bad ideas perpetuated by networks - perhaps the reason why science advances one funeral at a time even in face of evidence that it really doesn't work that way. Look at miasma theory and their resistance to germ theory even after cholera outbreaks where brewers were untouched because they got some pay in beer. WW2 era Imperial Japan was a particularly bad example given things like Banzai Charges and acknowledging weakness being socially unacceptable to the point of thinking even complete destruction of the navy of a much larger and self-sufficient industrial naval power over oil sanctions would somehow result in restoring oil supplies instead of eventually coming over with a much bigger navy and airforce in a decade /in the avsolute best case scenario/.
  • rmah 8y ago
    "The real question is what keeps networks from being collective madness in service of themselves?" Competition keeps it from being that.
• therealdrag0 8y ago
  I've seen this recently in my job search. I reached out to 2 ex-coworkers who are now leads/managers looking for work. Both offered my jobs without hesitation, because they have seen me work and know what I'm worth. However, going through traditional routes, I have something like 15+ no-responses, 10 tech screen rejections, and 3 on-sites with 2 offers.
• hartator 8y ago
  I don’t think networking matters that much. In the tech business at least. Most of my business are in new niches where I knew no one. This is fine. People are usually nice, open, and want to work with you if you can demonstrate value. Relying on your network can throw in the wrong way as people just don’t know the specific of whatever industry you are in. The hardest thing is execution not befriending smart or influential people.
• reubenswartz 8y ago
  This is all very true. As an introvert with a non-photographic memory for faces, I don't always find it easy. But it's definitely easier and more rewarding when you just look to connect and help people, trying to "pay in" to the karma pool. Also, it takes work to create and maintain relationships. (I created a little web-based calculator to help you estimate your "Maximum Social Network": https://www.mimiran.com/the-maximum-social-network/ https://www.mimiran.com/the-maximum-social-network/ It's a little surprising how small a real network is, at least in the first degree.)