14 ms·

25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

304 points by axiomdata316 8y ago

eljimmy 8y ago
Linus’ view on anonymity was surprising to read. I’m not sure I agree with him on that but his view on social media being a platform for the lowest common denominator sure seems agreeable.
- bch 8y ago
  He’s essentially a performer/personality though, and I’m inclined to say his answer is a self-serving performance itself. It would be fine, except that he writes out people who have valid reasons for anonymity - from “i feel like it”, on up. I’m personally not fussed by Linus’ antics, but cringe thinking about sensitive people, maybe still forming their personalities or sense of self, looking up to him. Hard to argue with his technical chops and many successes, but that doesn’t make him expert in everything he’s got an opinion on. He even punts on a softball question and makes it about himself: “what advice do you have for young programmers and students?” - how about “have fun, exercise and stay healthy and dive in!” I’m sorry to be negative here, but I wish Linus did better in this regard.
  - Icyphox 8y ago
    > He even punts on a softball question and makes it about himself It was his interview, asking him for his opinions and takes. I feel like that’s a perfectly valid answer.
  - adwn 8y ago
    > He even punts on a softball question and makes it about himself That's because it was about himself! Bob asked him for his advice. > how about “have fun, exercise and stay healthy and dive in!” That's such an overused, uninspired, undistinguished answer. Why would you ask Linus if that's what you want to hear?
    - bch 8y ago
      It is - a simplistic throw away I came up with as I typed, and still more valuable than “don’t ask me”. I’m just bemoaning that after 25 years he’s still an antihero.
      - SimplyUnknown 8y ago
        I'm still more comfortable with an antihero that is down to earth and knows when to shut up like Linus than with a full-time worshipped Hero persona, e.g. Elon Musk.
      - rakoo 8y ago
        I value a real answer that shows who _he_ is much more than a generic quote you can find on a wish card _anyone_ can receive. The interview is about him after all.
- vonmoltke 8y ago
  I'm kinda surprised it isn't getting more attention here. I wonder what his opinion of "the right to be forgotten" (a.k.a., "the right to take back stupid shit you once said").
ben165 8y ago
>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This is a problem I don't understand too. If you are really into something you motivating yourself in doing things. You can see how stupid people are when you just read the questions on Stackoverflow today. Nobody seems to figure things out by themselves anymore. Same with YouTube, when people explaining simple math things with extremely effort people complaining then that today's teachers are shit. But it's more your own lack if you're not able to imagine these thing inside your mind by yourself.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  I think you're confusing laziness, ADD, and a general lack of discipline with stupidity.
  - RandomInteger4 8y ago
    Or simple efficiency. Why spend hours figuring something complex out when the problem has already been solved a million times prior. That's essentially the basis of learning anything. Sure, at some point it's nice to derive something from first principles to really understand it at a deeper level, but often times that's a complex process and it's aided by learning the thing by repetition prior to learning by how the thing was derived. That's how we learn math after all.
    - adwn 8y ago
      > Or simple efficiency. Why spend hours figuring something complex out when the problem has already been solved a million times prior. I agree, at least when it comes to problems that don't fall into your core specialization. When you have a broken pipe, you don't spend several years studying plumbing, you just call a plumber. Similarly, when I have problem with LibreOffice, I don't start reading its source code, I go to Stack Overflow.
tannhaeuser 8y ago
Heh, he's using an XPS 13. Take that, Thinkpad snobs.
- bgeeek 8y ago
  Needs more detail, though. I want to know if he's using Mad WiFi or a wired connection, and listening to music very loudly while using it ;)
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  Snobs? I have an XPS after previously being a ThinkPad fan, the XPS was much more expensive.
  - rb808 8y ago
    ooo, I was just about to choose thinkpad over xps mainly because of the keyboard. Does XPS have any advantage?
    - bgeeek 8y ago
      Price. That's literally it.
- bluedino 8y ago
  He was using a MacBook Air around 2011.
teekert 8y ago
Ah, Id love a video of this. Is there a video?
qlk1123 8y ago
> Bob: Anything else you want to comment on, either publicly or otherwise? > Linus: I've never had some "message" that I wanted to spread, so ... It's a pity that a man with such influence has no message that he wants to spread, but I can somehow understand this respond. My personal take of this quote can refer to another quote from his TED interview[1]: > I’m an engineer. I’m perfectly happy with all the people who are walking around and just staring at the clouds and looking at the stars and saying, “I want to go there,” but I’m looking at the ground and I want to fix the pothole that’s right in front of me before I fall in. While I wish such leader can speak for values like democracy or human rights, it is just not possible to happen. [1] https://www.ted.com/talks/linus_torvalds_the_mind_behind_linux/transcript#t-1020235 https://www.ted.com/talks/linus_torvalds_the_mind_behind_lin...
- ToFab123 8y ago
  > It's a pity that a man with such influence has no message that he wants to spread Maybe he just like playing with computers?
- oraphalous 8y ago
  >While I wish such leader can speak for values like democracy or human rights... Or maybe people who have no particular expertise in political matters should stop opining so much about them? And maybe we should stop politicising all aspects of culture and existence. There is so much more to life.
  - alkonaut 8y ago
    There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Saying "I just play football, I leave politics to politicians" or "I'm just an engineer, I leave politics to the experts" aren't doing that. They are simply saying "I'm happy with what everyone else with an audience says". And the other people with audiences aren't experts either for the most part. If you have listeners you have a responsibility for what you are saying whether you like it or not. It doesn't matter whether those 1M instagram followers just like to see you do backflips on a bicycle. If have 1M followers you have influence. If you have 10M followers you are a political force. Even if you just ride bikes on instagram. Saying nothing even remotely political is better than completely screwing up ("Lex Notch"), but it's still the easy way out.
eartheaterrr 8y ago
>As to C, nothing better has come around. >The kind of languages people see under active development aren't for low-level system programming. I found it interesting that he didn't mention Rust. Or is Rust not suitable for kernel development?
- FrederickZh 8y ago
  He was once asked about Rust during an interview: https://www.infoworld.com/article/3109150/linux-at-25-linus-torvalds-on-the-evolution-and-future-of-linux.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/3109150/linux-at-25-linus-...
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    > I'm not convinced about Rust for an OS kernel (there's a lot more to system programming than the kernel, though), but at the same time there is no question that C has a lot of limitations. > To anyone who wants to build their own kernel from scratch, I can just wish them luck. It's a huge project, and I don't think you actually solve any of the really hard kernel problems with your choice of programming language. The big problems tend to be about hardware support (all those drivers, all the odd details about different platforms, all the subtleties in memory management and resource accounting), and anybody who thinks that the choice of language simplifies those things a lot is likely to be very disappointed.
- simion314 8y ago
  Rust fans should contribute to Rust kernels and stop suggesting porting existing ones like Linux, rewriting existing working code without introducing new bugs and changing behavior is hard and expensive as in developer hours, it is faster to do it from scratch in your favorite language with your favorite patterns and drop legacy stuff(even this means you will have less possible users then Linux).
mortdeus 8y ago
What a boring interview. The questions he asked doesn't even give us new insight into Linus's opinions on tech.
Nr7 8y ago
Btw. ice hockey is _not_ the national sport of Finland (it's not even the national sport of Canada!). The Finnish national sport is pesäpallo (Finnish baseball).
- Ardon 8y ago
  Hockey is the national sport of Canada. But so is lacrosse.
  - Nr7 8y ago
    Looks like you're right. Ice hockey is the national _winter_ sport of Canada while lacrosse is the _summer_ sport.
    - sah2ed 8y ago
      OT: you could fix the intended italics in your comment by using '<asterisk-char>' instead of '_'. > Looks like you're right. Ice hockey is the national winter sport of Canada while lacrosse is the summer sport. See here for the formatting options supported: https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
      - Nr7 8y ago
        Too late to edit now, but thanks. :)
decoyworker 8y ago
I'd like to see someone ask: If you were to redesign Linux from scratch right now what would you do differently?
- std_throwawayay 8y ago
  Would he use C++ or Rust?
  - LandR 8y ago
    IIRC, I think he's said previously that he doesn't want C++ in the kernal and doesn't think Rust is suitable.
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      I think you're replying to a joke.
  - favorited 8y ago
    From the interview: "As to C, nothing better has come around. ... And honestly, it doesn't look likely to change."
tomcam 8y ago
A meta issue here... > Nancy and I and our three daughters are all doing well. Our eldest, Zoe, who was 11 when Marc and I started Red Hat, is expecting her second child—meaning I'm a grandparent. First off, I don’t give a damn about the interviewer’s family, Red Hat founder or not. Not sure why it’s included in the article. But you know who does? Identity thieves. I feel like Young should be more aware of the issues this kind of thing can pose. He’s a high net worth guy and it seems reckless to publish anywhere, much less an unprotected article like this one.
- wcarron 8y ago
  You're going to have to learn to deal with some editorialization. That's part of life and reading articles on the internet You're an anonymous observer to two peoples' conversation, who clearly have a history that spans decades. Stay in your lane.
  - tomcam 8y ago
    > Stay in your lane. Meaning what?

304 points by axiomdata316 8y ago

Linus’ view on anonymity was surprising to read. I’m not sure I agree with him on that but his view on social media being a platform for the lowest common denominator sure seems agreeable.

bch 8y ago
He’s essentially a performer/personality though, and I’m inclined to say his answer is a self-serving performance itself. It would be fine, except that he writes out people who have valid reasons for anonymity - from “i feel like it”, on up. I’m personally not fussed by Linus’ antics, but cringe thinking about sensitive people, maybe still forming their personalities or sense of self, looking up to him. Hard to argue with his technical chops and many successes, but that doesn’t make him expert in everything he’s got an opinion on. He even punts on a softball question and makes it about himself: “what advice do you have for young programmers and students?” - how about “have fun, exercise and stay healthy and dive in!” I’m sorry to be negative here, but I wish Linus did better in this regard.
- Icyphox 8y ago
  > He even punts on a softball question and makes it about himself It was his interview, asking him for his opinions and takes. I feel like that’s a perfectly valid answer.
- adwn 8y ago
  > He even punts on a softball question and makes it about himself That's because it was about himself! Bob asked him for his advice. > how about “have fun, exercise and stay healthy and dive in!” That's such an overused, uninspired, undistinguished answer. Why would you ask Linus if that's what you want to hear?
  - bch 8y ago
    It is - a simplistic throw away I came up with as I typed, and still more valuable than “don’t ask me”. I’m just bemoaning that after 25 years he’s still an antihero.
    - SimplyUnknown 8y ago
      I'm still more comfortable with an antihero that is down to earth and knows when to shut up like Linus than with a full-time worshipped Hero persona, e.g. Elon Musk.
    - rakoo 8y ago
      I value a real answer that shows who _he_ is much more than a generic quote you can find on a wish card _anyone_ can receive. The interview is about him after all.
vonmoltke 8y ago
I'm kinda surprised it isn't getting more attention here. I wonder what his opinion of "the right to be forgotten" (a.k.a., "the right to take back stupid shit you once said").

ben165 8y ago

>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This is a problem I don't understand too. If you are really into something you motivating yourself in doing things. You can see how stupid people are when you just read the questions on Stackoverflow today. Nobody seems to figure things out by themselves anymore. Same with YouTube, when people explaining simple math things with extremely effort people complaining then that today's teachers are shit. But it's more your own lack if you're not able to imagine these thing inside your mind by yourself.

newnewpdro 8y ago
I think you're confusing laziness, ADD, and a general lack of discipline with stupidity.
- RandomInteger4 8y ago
  Or simple efficiency. Why spend hours figuring something complex out when the problem has already been solved a million times prior. That's essentially the basis of learning anything. Sure, at some point it's nice to derive something from first principles to really understand it at a deeper level, but often times that's a complex process and it's aided by learning the thing by repetition prior to learning by how the thing was derived. That's how we learn math after all.
  - adwn 8y ago
    > Or simple efficiency. Why spend hours figuring something complex out when the problem has already been solved a million times prior. I agree, at least when it comes to problems that don't fall into your core specialization. When you have a broken pipe, you don't spend several years studying plumbing, you just call a plumber. Similarly, when I have problem with LibreOffice, I don't start reading its source code, I go to Stack Overflow.

tannhaeuser 8y ago

Heh, he's using an XPS 13. Take that, Thinkpad snobs.

bgeeek 8y ago
Needs more detail, though. I want to know if he's using Mad WiFi or a wired connection, and listening to music very loudly while using it ;)
SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
Snobs? I have an XPS after previously being a ThinkPad fan, the XPS was much more expensive.
- rb808 8y ago
  ooo, I was just about to choose thinkpad over xps mainly because of the keyboard. Does XPS have any advantage?
  - bgeeek 8y ago
    Price. That's literally it.
bluedino 8y ago
He was using a MacBook Air around 2011.

teekert 8y ago

Ah, Id love a video of this. Is there a video?

qlk1123 8y ago

> Bob: Anything else you want to comment on, either publicly or otherwise? > Linus: I've never had some "message" that I wanted to spread, so ... It's a pity that a man with such influence has no message that he wants to spread, but I can somehow understand this respond. My personal take of this quote can refer to another quote from his TED interview[1]: > I’m an engineer. I’m perfectly happy with all the people who are walking around and just staring at the clouds and looking at the stars and saying, “I want to go there,” but I’m looking at the ground and I want to fix the pothole that’s right in front of me before I fall in. While I wish such leader can speak for values like democracy or human rights, it is just not possible to happen. [1] https://www.ted.com/talks/linus_torvalds_the_mind_behind_linux/transcript#t-1020235 https://www.ted.com/talks/linus_torvalds_the_mind_behind_lin...

ToFab123 8y ago
> It's a pity that a man with such influence has no message that he wants to spread Maybe he just like playing with computers?
oraphalous 8y ago
>While I wish such leader can speak for values like democracy or human rights... Or maybe people who have no particular expertise in political matters should stop opining so much about them? And maybe we should stop politicising all aspects of culture and existence. There is so much more to life.
- alkonaut 8y ago
  There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Saying "I just play football, I leave politics to politicians" or "I'm just an engineer, I leave politics to the experts" aren't doing that. They are simply saying "I'm happy with what everyone else with an audience says". And the other people with audiences aren't experts either for the most part. If you have listeners you have a responsibility for what you are saying whether you like it or not. It doesn't matter whether those 1M instagram followers just like to see you do backflips on a bicycle. If have 1M followers you have influence. If you have 10M followers you are a political force. Even if you just ride bikes on instagram. Saying nothing even remotely political is better than completely screwing up ("Lex Notch"), but it's still the easy way out.

eartheaterrr 8y ago

>As to C, nothing better has come around. >The kind of languages people see under active development aren't for low-level system programming. I found it interesting that he didn't mention Rust. Or is Rust not suitable for kernel development?

FrederickZh 8y ago
He was once asked about Rust during an interview: https://www.infoworld.com/article/3109150/linux-at-25-linus-torvalds-on-the-evolution-and-future-of-linux.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/3109150/linux-at-25-linus-...
- ekianjo 8y ago
  > I'm not convinced about Rust for an OS kernel (there's a lot more to system programming than the kernel, though), but at the same time there is no question that C has a lot of limitations. > To anyone who wants to build their own kernel from scratch, I can just wish them luck. It's a huge project, and I don't think you actually solve any of the really hard kernel problems with your choice of programming language. The big problems tend to be about hardware support (all those drivers, all the odd details about different platforms, all the subtleties in memory management and resource accounting), and anybody who thinks that the choice of language simplifies those things a lot is likely to be very disappointed.
simion314 8y ago
Rust fans should contribute to Rust kernels and stop suggesting porting existing ones like Linux, rewriting existing working code without introducing new bugs and changing behavior is hard and expensive as in developer hours, it is faster to do it from scratch in your favorite language with your favorite patterns and drop legacy stuff(even this means you will have less possible users then Linux).

mortdeus 8y ago

What a boring interview. The questions he asked doesn't even give us new insight into Linus's opinions on tech.

Nr7 8y ago

Btw. ice hockey is _not_ the national sport of Finland (it's not even the national sport of Canada!). The Finnish national sport is pesäpallo (Finnish baseball).

Ardon 8y ago
Hockey is the national sport of Canada. But so is lacrosse.
- Nr7 8y ago
  Looks like you're right. Ice hockey is the national _winter_ sport of Canada while lacrosse is the _summer_ sport.
  - sah2ed 8y ago
    OT: you could fix the intended italics in your comment by using '<asterisk-char>' instead of '_'. > Looks like you're right. Ice hockey is the national winter sport of Canada while lacrosse is the summer sport. See here for the formatting options supported: https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
    - Nr7 8y ago
      Too late to edit now, but thanks. :)

decoyworker 8y ago

I'd like to see someone ask: If you were to redesign Linux from scratch right now what would you do differently?

std_throwawayay 8y ago
Would he use C++ or Rust?
- LandR 8y ago
  IIRC, I think he's said previously that he doesn't want C++ in the kernal and doesn't think Rust is suitable.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    I think you're replying to a joke.
- favorited 8y ago
  From the interview: "As to C, nothing better has come around. ... And honestly, it doesn't look likely to change."

tomcam 8y ago

A meta issue here... > Nancy and I and our three daughters are all doing well. Our eldest, Zoe, who was 11 when Marc and I started Red Hat, is expecting her second child—meaning I'm a grandparent. First off, I don’t give a damn about the interviewer’s family, Red Hat founder or not. Not sure why it’s included in the article. But you know who does? Identity thieves. I feel like Young should be more aware of the issues this kind of thing can pose. He’s a high net worth guy and it seems reckless to publish anywhere, much less an unprotected article like this one.

wcarron 8y ago
You're going to have to learn to deal with some editorialization. That's part of life and reading articles on the internet You're an anonymous observer to two peoples' conversation, who clearly have a history that spans decades. Stay in your lane.
- tomcam 8y ago
  > Stay in your lane. Meaning what?