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The introduction to State and Power by V. I. Lenin says exactly this - the state will always become a proxy for the rich owners of production (GDP generation.)

The introduction to State and Power by V. I. Lenin says exactly this - the state will always become a proxy for the rich owners of production (GDP generation.) And not in a nefarious way but in an inevitable "forces" way. Democracy is the best government for large/rich entities in a capitalistic environment. It presents the appearance of fairness and legitimacy, yet delegates most of its power and direction to the heads of production via influence, lobbyists, etc.

cbnotfromthere 8y ago
Is that you, Bernie?
- goldenkey 8y ago
  I'm just paraphrasing Lenin. Even if you are emotionally repelled by the horrors committed in the name of communism, The Communist Manifesto and State and Power are worth a read. Lenin was the best writer of the bunch, direct and explanatory. Marx is wordy and almost writes in an obfuscated fashion. The problems with democracy that were described _still_ exist today. One can dislike communism and still acknowledge the criticisms of capitalism as valid and in need of address. Communism was never actually executed true to the image. The state of the proleteriat was supposed to wither away - instead it became a dictatorship with secret police. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_state
harry8 8y ago
And it's all utter crap. Power corrupts. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance etc etc. Leninist states have consistently always been massively more corrupt than democracies because there is absolutely nothing you can do about the corruption. Stronger anti-corruption measures are possible in democracy, they are not in facist and totalitarian states which every single leninist, marxist and maoist idealogically blinded government becomes very, very rapidly on taking power. Remember the time those holding the power in a communist state got "voted out" resulting in them losing that power? Neither does anyone else, but quite a few have heard tanks coming. But Stalin wasn't a corporation, right?
- goldenkey 8y ago
  I didn't write anything in support of communism, just that the critiques of capitalism are still valid and need to be addressed. I have no interest in a fallacious debate.
alanlamm 8y ago
why was this flagged? I'm no fan of communism, but it appears to be a valid response to the parent.
- goldenkey 8y ago
  I have no idea - I'm not usually one to espouse political ideas unless wholly relevant to a topic at hand. It seems that a band of HN users are politically adverse - which is sad, since capital rules our lives and society, and merely ignoring its flaws does nothing to abate them.

cbnotfromthere 8y ago

Is that you, Bernie?

goldenkey 8y ago
I'm just paraphrasing Lenin. Even if you are emotionally repelled by the horrors committed in the name of communism, The Communist Manifesto and State and Power are worth a read. Lenin was the best writer of the bunch, direct and explanatory. Marx is wordy and almost writes in an obfuscated fashion. The problems with democracy that were described _still_ exist today. One can dislike communism and still acknowledge the criticisms of capitalism as valid and in need of address. Communism was never actually executed true to the image. The state of the proleteriat was supposed to wither away - instead it became a dictatorship with secret police. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_state

harry8 8y ago

And it's all utter crap. Power corrupts. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance etc etc. Leninist states have consistently always been massively more corrupt than democracies because there is absolutely nothing you can do about the corruption. Stronger anti-corruption measures are possible in democracy, they are not in facist and totalitarian states which every single leninist, marxist and maoist idealogically blinded government becomes very, very rapidly on taking power. Remember the time those holding the power in a communist state got "voted out" resulting in them losing that power? Neither does anyone else, but quite a few have heard tanks coming. But Stalin wasn't a corporation, right?

goldenkey 8y ago
I didn't write anything in support of communism, just that the critiques of capitalism are still valid and need to be addressed. I have no interest in a fallacious debate.

alanlamm 8y ago

why was this flagged? I'm no fan of communism, but it appears to be a valid response to the parent.

goldenkey 8y ago
I have no idea - I'm not usually one to espouse political ideas unless wholly relevant to a topic at hand. It seems that a band of HN users are politically adverse - which is sad, since capital rules our lives and society, and merely ignoring its flaws does nothing to abate them.