8 ms·

> No, blame the movie studios, record labels etc. They're the one which require asinine DRM support for web browsers. Google/Microsoft/Apple/Adobe want to suppo

by jhasse 8y ago

> No, blame the movie studios, record labels etc. They're the one which require asinine DRM support for web browsers. Google/Microsoft/Apple/Adobe want to support media content, but to do so requires towing the line with the media companies otherwise they refuse to license the content (at least in HD+). Let's say Google, Microsoft and Apple announce that they will be removing any DRM from their browsers on 2020-01-01. They will also remove any DRM playback app from their App Stores. So no Netflix on PCs, Macs, iPhones, iPads or any Android device (including stuff like Android TV). What do you think would happen?

clarkmoody 8y ago
This is the correct solution. The big tech companies control the distribution channels. Currently, they bend to the requirements of large content producers. If they leaned the other way, toward open source and DRM-free distribution, the producers would have no choice but to comply. Of course, content producers could run back to the state for more protection (as they always do) and get legislation forcing browser makers to comply. And around and around it goes.
- wolfgke 8y ago
  > Of course, content producers could run back to the state for more protection (as they always do) and get legislation forcing browser makers to comply. Implementations of such forced-by-court features tend to be buggy. ;-) The implementation bugs might differ in subtle ways in each new browser release. ;-)
chinathrow 8y ago
Why would they need to remove the DRM playback app in your scenario? If they would only remove it from the browsers, they would start pushing their native applications like Netflix for Linux, Netflix for Windows, Netflix for Mac. And browsers would be free of their DRM which causes all this.
- jhasse 8y ago
  Because that would still prevent Metastream from working with Netflix ;)
rjmunro 8y ago
Simple: You'd have to install a plugin or a separate special app to watch video, like the bad old days of RealPlayer.
- theprotocol 8y ago
  This is the most plausible outcome. Netflix wouldn't just leave that money on the table and the most obvious thing to do would be to provide the support they want from browsers themselves. Users follow use cases and would not be averse to spending 30 seconds installing something in order to watch their favorite content. There's also sort of a game theory situation with the removal of DRM, as it would be a competitive advantage being the only one that supports it.
  - bad_user 8y ago
    All Netflix movies are on PirateBay already, in spite of their DRM. I’ve seen movies pop up on PirateBay the day they are released. They wouldn’t leave any money on the table. People paying for Netflix are paying for convenience. That wouldn’t change in absence of DRM.
    - theprotocol 8y ago
      I think you're greatly underestimating how much more cumbersome torrenting is even compared to a plugin, especially for "normal" users who are not necessarily tech-savvy.
      - bad_user 8y ago
        This argument is repeated ad nauseam but it’s false, all it takes is a torrenting app installed, that’s the only threshold. But back to the point, if Netflix wouldn’t use DRM, it would change absolutely nothing since copyright infringement is still illegal and those DRM protections are completely useless.
        fixermark 8y ago
Angostura 8y ago
Mac and PC, Netflix would make their applications available outside the App stores. Apple would have to shut down its Apple TV operation. Then Apple and Google would get deluged with complaints from their customers and Jailbreaks would once again become popular.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Media companies would rejoice. Since such a coordinated move from Google, Microsoft and Apple would destroy streaming for everyone indiscriminately, it would re-level the playing field and enable everyone to start competing anew. Disney, HBO and others would fork Chromium and add DRM support back, then market the shit out of it. They'd start signing deals with phone and TV manufacturers to get their DRM back, each preferably in a way that excludes the others. There'd be a lot of churn as whole media space gets re-balkanized, but that's all good, since churn means they make money. A lot of smaller companies would die, and a lot of users would suffer - but none of the parties involved actually cares about the users; we're just a natural resource to be stripmined.
- jhasse 8y ago
  Just as the only browser with DRM would have a huge advantage in that scenario, the one streaming service without DRM would have, too. I honestly think Netflix would take that chance for their own content.
- hrktb 8y ago
  The internet before streaming (when downloading postage stamp clips took 3 hours) was close to that described state, and people just exchanged burned CDRs right and left. Even elderly people were using and watching pirated stuff installed by their kids as they just couldn’t bother. No DRM support in major browsers would mean pirating becomes the #1 way to see anything again.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    That is a realistic outcome. Then again, the way media companies are balkanizing the streaming space, this could become (again) a reality soon anyway.
est31 8y ago
Antitrust complaints / lawsuits?
- jhasse 8y ago
  Good point. I wonder if that would apply though.
Const-me 8y ago
> What do you think would happen? Consumers will have to purchase or rent horrible and overpriced hardware supplied by broadcasters. Like they were doing for decades with satellites, and early IPTV. Piracy will raise a lot. Many users don’t want to pay, or can’t pay for that custom hardware. I was using Netflix service for some time without major issues, but they don’t have anything in my country, too small one, they won’t be selling and supporting their set top boxes any time soon. Unlike accepting credit cards and broadcasting videos, physical retail doesn’t scale that easily.
tokyodude 8y ago
Simple, which ever one switches first will lose all their users as they scramble to use a browser that still lets them watch the content.

by jhasse 8y ago

clarkmoody 8y ago

This is the correct solution. The big tech companies control the distribution channels. Currently, they bend to the requirements of large content producers. If they leaned the other way, toward open source and DRM-free distribution, the producers would have no choice but to comply. Of course, content producers could run back to the state for more protection (as they always do) and get legislation forcing browser makers to comply. And around and around it goes.

wolfgke 8y ago
> Of course, content producers could run back to the state for more protection (as they always do) and get legislation forcing browser makers to comply. Implementations of such forced-by-court features tend to be buggy. ;-) The implementation bugs might differ in subtle ways in each new browser release. ;-)

chinathrow 8y ago

Why would they need to remove the DRM playback app in your scenario? If they would only remove it from the browsers, they would start pushing their native applications like Netflix for Linux, Netflix for Windows, Netflix for Mac. And browsers would be free of their DRM which causes all this.

jhasse 8y ago
Because that would still prevent Metastream from working with Netflix ;)

rjmunro 8y ago

Simple: You'd have to install a plugin or a separate special app to watch video, like the bad old days of RealPlayer.

theprotocol 8y ago
This is the most plausible outcome. Netflix wouldn't just leave that money on the table and the most obvious thing to do would be to provide the support they want from browsers themselves. Users follow use cases and would not be averse to spending 30 seconds installing something in order to watch their favorite content. There's also sort of a game theory situation with the removal of DRM, as it would be a competitive advantage being the only one that supports it.
- bad_user 8y ago
  All Netflix movies are on PirateBay already, in spite of their DRM. I’ve seen movies pop up on PirateBay the day they are released. They wouldn’t leave any money on the table. People paying for Netflix are paying for convenience. That wouldn’t change in absence of DRM.
  - theprotocol 8y ago
    I think you're greatly underestimating how much more cumbersome torrenting is even compared to a plugin, especially for "normal" users who are not necessarily tech-savvy.
    - bad_user 8y ago
      This argument is repeated ad nauseam but it’s false, all it takes is a torrenting app installed, that’s the only threshold. But back to the point, if Netflix wouldn’t use DRM, it would change absolutely nothing since copyright infringement is still illegal and those DRM protections are completely useless.
      - fixermark 8y ago

Angostura 8y ago

Mac and PC, Netflix would make their applications available outside the App stores. Apple would have to shut down its Apple TV operation. Then Apple and Google would get deluged with complaints from their customers and Jailbreaks would once again become popular.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Media companies would rejoice. Since such a coordinated move from Google, Microsoft and Apple would destroy streaming for everyone indiscriminately, it would re-level the playing field and enable everyone to start competing anew. Disney, HBO and others would fork Chromium and add DRM support back, then market the shit out of it. They'd start signing deals with phone and TV manufacturers to get their DRM back, each preferably in a way that excludes the others. There'd be a lot of churn as whole media space gets re-balkanized, but that's all good, since churn means they make money. A lot of smaller companies would die, and a lot of users would suffer - but none of the parties involved actually cares about the users; we're just a natural resource to be stripmined.

jhasse 8y ago
Just as the only browser with DRM would have a huge advantage in that scenario, the one streaming service without DRM would have, too. I honestly think Netflix would take that chance for their own content.
hrktb 8y ago
The internet before streaming (when downloading postage stamp clips took 3 hours) was close to that described state, and people just exchanged burned CDRs right and left. Even elderly people were using and watching pirated stuff installed by their kids as they just couldn’t bother. No DRM support in major browsers would mean pirating becomes the #1 way to see anything again.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  That is a realistic outcome. Then again, the way media companies are balkanizing the streaming space, this could become (again) a reality soon anyway.

est31 8y ago

Antitrust complaints / lawsuits?

jhasse 8y ago
Good point. I wonder if that would apply though.

Const-me 8y ago

> What do you think would happen? Consumers will have to purchase or rent horrible and overpriced hardware supplied by broadcasters. Like they were doing for decades with satellites, and early IPTV. Piracy will raise a lot. Many users don’t want to pay, or can’t pay for that custom hardware. I was using Netflix service for some time without major issues, but they don’t have anything in my country, too small one, they won’t be selling and supporting their set top boxes any time soon. Unlike accepting credit cards and broadcasting videos, physical retail doesn’t scale that easily.

tokyodude 8y ago

Simple, which ever one switches first will lose all their users as they scramble to use a browser that still lets them watch the content.