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Well nobody is saying that any language is wrong or not. It's just that the french language is kind of an international standard and some people must decide how

Well nobody is saying that any language is wrong or not. It's just that the french language is kind of an international standard and some people must decide how this standard should adapt with the evolution of the world. But the decision they make are not arbitrary decisions based on their personal feelings, they are guided by the etymology of french.

onli 8y ago
> some people must decide how this standard should adapt with the evolution of the world Actually, no. Neither English, Spanish nor German have a dedicated powerful centralized institution that makes those decisions for the language, and I guess Chinese doesn't either? > But the decision they make are not arbitrary decisions based on their personal feelings, they are guided by the etymology of french. French differs strongly from other languages in how current developments are integrated, think ordinateur, portable and not having a word for uploading stuff. They might be guided by some principle, but it leads French being an artificial and very strange language that's hard to learn and differs more than necessary, from English especially.
- kuschku 8y ago
  German actually has the Rat der Deutschen Sprache which is exactly this and makes exactly these decisions. As do many other languages. The latest change they made was introducing the capital ẞ.
  - bhaak 8y ago
    No, it doesn't if you mean with "exactly these decisions" that it also decides what words are considered officially part of the language. You also got the name wrong. It's "Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung" (Council for German Orthography) and that is exactly what they do. They standardize on the orthography. Nothing more.
- gerard2 8y ago
  Ahah, what the hell are you talking about. Here is a very hidden list, found on an obscure website, that you might want to look into : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_regulators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_regulators
  - bhaak 8y ago
    This list doesn't say what scope those regulators have. I only know the situation for German and there the "Council for German Orthography" only regulates orthography not language and word usage, so take this list with a grain of salt.
    - 4ad 8y ago
      Also, they don't carry swords and wear $50k robes. Quite the difference.
      - gerard2 8y ago
        Germans are not allowed to play around with sharp objects anymore
- gerard2 8y ago
  The english language doesn't have such an institution, but what can you say about the unicity of the United Kingdom when half of the country speaks its own variant of the language and is asking for independence ?
- pqs 8y ago
  Spanish has the Royal Academy of the Spanish Language, which is exactly like the French Académie. Many latin-American countries have an equivalent, and they coordinate with the Spanish one.
  - kgwgk 8y ago
    Minor correction: the name of the institution doesn’t include the word “language”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Spanish_Academy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Spanish_Academy
- seszett 8y ago
  > Neither English, Spanish nor German have a dedicated powerful centralized institution that makes those decisions for the language, and I guess Chinese doesn't either? Among this list, only English doesn't have an institution. All three other languages (Spanish, German and Chinese) have multiple institutions, basically one per country that speaks the language, just like French.
  - onli 8y ago
    German does not have such an institution - I am German and that's just a fact. Spanish might have such an institution, but it evidently does not work - Mexican Spanish != Spanish Spanish != .... Note that I did not say it does not exist, I said there is no "powerful centralized" instance deciding this. I stand to this judgement, also for Spanish. The extent of the actual influence wielded by the academie francaise seems to me pretty unique.
    - SiempreViernes 8y ago
      At this point you are attributing the French academy superhuman powers, the Académie Française have of course exactly the same influence as the RAE: they make the definitive dictionary and then despair a bit about all the shit words they will have to include in the next version.
    - seszett 8y ago
      I think you are overestimating the actual influence of the Académie then, because it has little. The new words they propose are seldom adopted, and are eventually dropped as they only formalize actual usage. They're not creating a parallel language. The education system is also governed by a different language institution. And just like Spanish, French is governed by different entities in different countries. The French and Québec councils are the most influent ones - and France French and Québec French are also the most divergent versions. The French language is only "powerfully centralized" within each French-speaking country. And even then, only among a few countries. I would say it is actually less centralized than the German language, which has a single institution that oversees orthography in ALL the German-speaking world. The French language has nothing like that.
lucozade 8y ago
> Well nobody is saying that any language is wrong or not The Academie have done something quite similar. Infamously, they argued against protection of regional French languages. And I agree that they’re not arbitrary but only because they have always been dead set against imported words. They have a conservatism that has become more and more anachronistic. I can’t say I have an issue with them, because they’re entirely ignorable, but there’s a risk that they’re seen as pathetic and that that view reflects poorly on France.
- gerard2 8y ago
  Yes I agree with you that it's quite a conservative institution, and yes if I remember well it was basically created to promote the use of french over the regional dialects. But I didn't want foreign readers (especially americans and our friends across La Manche since they have no such institution) to think that the Academie was weighing on the french everyday life.

onli 8y ago

> some people must decide how this standard should adapt with the evolution of the world Actually, no. Neither English, Spanish nor German have a dedicated powerful centralized institution that makes those decisions for the language, and I guess Chinese doesn't either? > But the decision they make are not arbitrary decisions based on their personal feelings, they are guided by the etymology of french. French differs strongly from other languages in how current developments are integrated, think ordinateur, portable and not having a word for uploading stuff. They might be guided by some principle, but it leads French being an artificial and very strange language that's hard to learn and differs more than necessary, from English especially.

kuschku 8y ago
German actually has the Rat der Deutschen Sprache which is exactly this and makes exactly these decisions. As do many other languages. The latest change they made was introducing the capital ẞ.
- bhaak 8y ago
  No, it doesn't if you mean with "exactly these decisions" that it also decides what words are considered officially part of the language. You also got the name wrong. It's "Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung" (Council for German Orthography) and that is exactly what they do. They standardize on the orthography. Nothing more.
gerard2 8y ago
Ahah, what the hell are you talking about. Here is a very hidden list, found on an obscure website, that you might want to look into : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_regulators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_regulators
- bhaak 8y ago
  This list doesn't say what scope those regulators have. I only know the situation for German and there the "Council for German Orthography" only regulates orthography not language and word usage, so take this list with a grain of salt.
  - 4ad 8y ago
    Also, they don't carry swords and wear $50k robes. Quite the difference.
    - gerard2 8y ago
      Germans are not allowed to play around with sharp objects anymore
gerard2 8y ago
The english language doesn't have such an institution, but what can you say about the unicity of the United Kingdom when half of the country speaks its own variant of the language and is asking for independence ?
pqs 8y ago
Spanish has the Royal Academy of the Spanish Language, which is exactly like the French Académie. Many latin-American countries have an equivalent, and they coordinate with the Spanish one.
- kgwgk 8y ago
  Minor correction: the name of the institution doesn’t include the word “language”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Spanish_Academy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Spanish_Academy
seszett 8y ago
> Neither English, Spanish nor German have a dedicated powerful centralized institution that makes those decisions for the language, and I guess Chinese doesn't either? Among this list, only English doesn't have an institution. All three other languages (Spanish, German and Chinese) have multiple institutions, basically one per country that speaks the language, just like French.
- onli 8y ago
  German does not have such an institution - I am German and that's just a fact. Spanish might have such an institution, but it evidently does not work - Mexican Spanish != Spanish Spanish != .... Note that I did not say it does not exist, I said there is no "powerful centralized" instance deciding this. I stand to this judgement, also for Spanish. The extent of the actual influence wielded by the academie francaise seems to me pretty unique.
  - SiempreViernes 8y ago
    At this point you are attributing the French academy superhuman powers, the Académie Française have of course exactly the same influence as the RAE: they make the definitive dictionary and then despair a bit about all the shit words they will have to include in the next version.
  - seszett 8y ago
    I think you are overestimating the actual influence of the Académie then, because it has little. The new words they propose are seldom adopted, and are eventually dropped as they only formalize actual usage. They're not creating a parallel language. The education system is also governed by a different language institution. And just like Spanish, French is governed by different entities in different countries. The French and Québec councils are the most influent ones - and France French and Québec French are also the most divergent versions. The French language is only "powerfully centralized" within each French-speaking country. And even then, only among a few countries. I would say it is actually less centralized than the German language, which has a single institution that oversees orthography in ALL the German-speaking world. The French language has nothing like that.

lucozade 8y ago

> Well nobody is saying that any language is wrong or not The Academie have done something quite similar. Infamously, they argued against protection of regional French languages. And I agree that they’re not arbitrary but only because they have always been dead set against imported words. They have a conservatism that has become more and more anachronistic. I can’t say I have an issue with them, because they’re entirely ignorable, but there’s a risk that they’re seen as pathetic and that that view reflects poorly on France.

gerard2 8y ago
Yes I agree with you that it's quite a conservative institution, and yes if I remember well it was basically created to promote the use of french over the regional dialects. But I didn't want foreign readers (especially americans and our friends across La Manche since they have no such institution) to think that the Academie was weighing on the french everyday life.