6 ms·

With respect to the college admissions bribes it seems like the game just got harder. Maybe the club of people able to bribe their kid's way into a school has g

by wppick 8y ago

With respect to the college admissions bribes it seems like the game just got harder. Maybe the club of people able to bribe their kid's way into a school has grown too large, and so the price has gone up. You now have to be more wealthy, and more well connected to be able to bribe your kid's way into these schools. In effect, these schools maintain their elite status of exclusivity based on either brains or money/connections to get in. Seems like this could be a "market correction" of sorts. If so, it's interesting to think about what that means about the current state of wealth concentration and the sociopolitical system

jondubois 8y ago
I think that it's because the value of social networking has increased to extreme levels. Skill is now nearly worthless in comparison. Rich people don't even know what skill means and they don't realize that all the people who are crowding around them are not actually skilled; they're charlatans. This is because the incentive to engage in social schemes is so high that it makes no sense to spend any effort on honing your skills... So instead of working on improving our value-creation skills, we're all working on improving our ability to bullshit (value capture). Bullshitting works. Bullshitting is success. If universities offered degrees in bullshitting, their graduates would be the highest paid. Guaranteed.
- stormbeard 8y ago
  To me, this looks like an analogy for the state of software interviews.
  - torqueTorrent 8y ago
    Even after Tim Cook said none of his best people have the obsolete degrees everyone covets, the focus and priorities of software interviews is perpetually: "please tell me your LinkedIn profile?" or "what was your college degree in, again?" as opposed to "oh you have precisely all the mad skilz to remake the world in Linus's image".
    - SamReidHughes 8y ago
      In all my software development interviews in the past many years I've been asked to state or demonstrate my skills and talents.
    - umanwizard 8y ago
      This is completely different from my experience interviewing.
- bellerose 8y ago
  I think the theory of skill being nearly worthless in comparison is correct. But I don't think that has really changed from the past. The majority of products & services in this world don't really bring any value to a person. I think the main problem in society is overpopulation. We're getting to the point that too many people exist for the old systems to function and as smoothly & unnoticeable for the mainstream as before.
- analog31 8y ago
  But the same group of people has in fact spent dearly on skill for their children, from bassoon lessons to math and computer coaches, and overseas experiences. It's just that an insane amount of skill isn't enough to get all of their kids into Harvard at once, so they're willing to chip in a bit more to make up the difference. My kids are at a competitive high school, so I know these parents and their kids. Nobody is calculating the value of social networking. They simply see Harvard (or other similar places) as the best and they want the best for their kids.
  - jondubois 8y ago
    >> Nobody is calculating the value of social networking. The few who know the value of social networking are the ones who will succeed.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - nradov 8y ago
    I don't pay for guitar and volleyball lessons for my children because I think they're going to become especially skilled or get into Harvard. I pay because I want to get them out of the house and limit their screen time.
    - analog31 8y ago
      I live in a fairly affluent town with a lot of competitive parents, so I've seen all sides of this. I'm not one of them, but there are definitely parents who see their kids' activities in terms of a progression towards an ultimate goal. My own philosophy is that those activities can lead to a fulfilling life, even if they don't pay back in monetary or career terms. I'm an amateur musician today, and it's a vital part of my life, so I'm grateful for the years of music lessons that my parents paid for.
- taneq 8y ago
  > Rich people don't even know what skill means Saying this is no better than saying "poor people are stupid".
  - invalidOrTaken 8y ago
    Can't it be both?
    - taneq 8y ago
      Not really, although there are plenty of either. Making blanket statements about a group of people based on a single attribute is bad.
leggomylibro 8y ago
Honestly, it seems like you'd have to be very out of touch with reality to offer actual bribes to people or engage in obvious fraud. It's just not necessary. When they still had a "writing" portion of the SAT, you could buy a 700-800 by writing an essay ahead of time and adapting it to the prompt. If you had the means to afford a 'test prep' service that would tell you that, you would be head-and-shoulders above the competition without blatantly breaking the law. And that's just one example; the entire system is tilted to make sure that affluent kids get into good schools and stay there until they graduate. You might not get into your 'dream school', but you will get into a world-class institution and have countless barriers swept aside for you over the following several years. It will tear the child to shreds in adulthood once they realize what happened, but that doesn't seem to matter to most wealthy parents. Plus, people entering their 20s don't usually know what will fulfill their lives, what they are good at, how they can contribute to others, their responsibilities as citizens, etc. I'd like to see a re-thinking of our entire educational system, with a focus on lifelong learning. What would be wrong with a cultural tradition of encouraging people to go back to school every decade or two? It seems like a huge waste of human capitol not to.
- xyzzy123 8y ago
  One problem with lifelong learning via formal institutions is that the less well off are “tapped out” already with debt and expenses while those with good careers (enough to save for an n-year break) face an enormous opportunity cost, hundreds of thousands of dollars. There are lots of people who would love to go back to college already and learn something new but the financial treadmill is running too fast to get off. More flexible learning options can help with this.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Going back full time always has a huge opertunity cost. But so does front loading education. Adults often go back for masters degrees which are manageable as it’s less material.
  - leggomylibro 8y ago
    It would definitely need to be offset by subsidies, but maybe that could come in the form of something that people could claim every 5-20 years like a tax return. It seems like we have a lot of levers to pull to make life easier on people doing things like that; tuition reimbursement, housing/food/course material subsidies, benefits like health care, child care, help with transit, etc. But I guess you would have to look out for a resurgence of scammy public for-profit institutions.
taneq 8y ago
Why bribe your way into a school when you could just buy or build your own?

by wppick 8y ago

jondubois 8y ago

I think that it's because the value of social networking has increased to extreme levels. Skill is now nearly worthless in comparison. Rich people don't even know what skill means and they don't realize that all the people who are crowding around them are not actually skilled; they're charlatans. This is because the incentive to engage in social schemes is so high that it makes no sense to spend any effort on honing your skills... So instead of working on improving our value-creation skills, we're all working on improving our ability to bullshit (value capture). Bullshitting works. Bullshitting is success. If universities offered degrees in bullshitting, their graduates would be the highest paid. Guaranteed.

stormbeard 8y ago
To me, this looks like an analogy for the state of software interviews.
- torqueTorrent 8y ago
  Even after Tim Cook said none of his best people have the obsolete degrees everyone covets, the focus and priorities of software interviews is perpetually: "please tell me your LinkedIn profile?" or "what was your college degree in, again?" as opposed to "oh you have precisely all the mad skilz to remake the world in Linus's image".
  - SamReidHughes 8y ago
    In all my software development interviews in the past many years I've been asked to state or demonstrate my skills and talents.
  - umanwizard 8y ago
    This is completely different from my experience interviewing.
bellerose 8y ago
I think the theory of skill being nearly worthless in comparison is correct. But I don't think that has really changed from the past. The majority of products & services in this world don't really bring any value to a person. I think the main problem in society is overpopulation. We're getting to the point that too many people exist for the old systems to function and as smoothly & unnoticeable for the mainstream as before.
analog31 8y ago
But the same group of people has in fact spent dearly on skill for their children, from bassoon lessons to math and computer coaches, and overseas experiences. It's just that an insane amount of skill isn't enough to get all of their kids into Harvard at once, so they're willing to chip in a bit more to make up the difference. My kids are at a competitive high school, so I know these parents and their kids. Nobody is calculating the value of social networking. They simply see Harvard (or other similar places) as the best and they want the best for their kids.
- jondubois 8y ago
  >> Nobody is calculating the value of social networking. The few who know the value of social networking are the ones who will succeed.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- nradov 8y ago
  I don't pay for guitar and volleyball lessons for my children because I think they're going to become especially skilled or get into Harvard. I pay because I want to get them out of the house and limit their screen time.
  - analog31 8y ago
    I live in a fairly affluent town with a lot of competitive parents, so I've seen all sides of this. I'm not one of them, but there are definitely parents who see their kids' activities in terms of a progression towards an ultimate goal. My own philosophy is that those activities can lead to a fulfilling life, even if they don't pay back in monetary or career terms. I'm an amateur musician today, and it's a vital part of my life, so I'm grateful for the years of music lessons that my parents paid for.
taneq 8y ago
> Rich people don't even know what skill means Saying this is no better than saying "poor people are stupid".
- invalidOrTaken 8y ago
  Can't it be both?
  - taneq 8y ago
    Not really, although there are plenty of either. Making blanket statements about a group of people based on a single attribute is bad.

leggomylibro 8y ago

Honestly, it seems like you'd have to be very out of touch with reality to offer actual bribes to people or engage in obvious fraud. It's just not necessary. When they still had a "writing" portion of the SAT, you could buy a 700-800 by writing an essay ahead of time and adapting it to the prompt. If you had the means to afford a 'test prep' service that would tell you that, you would be head-and-shoulders above the competition without blatantly breaking the law. And that's just one example; the entire system is tilted to make sure that affluent kids get into good schools and stay there until they graduate. You might not get into your 'dream school', but you will get into a world-class institution and have countless barriers swept aside for you over the following several years. It will tear the child to shreds in adulthood once they realize what happened, but that doesn't seem to matter to most wealthy parents. Plus, people entering their 20s don't usually know what will fulfill their lives, what they are good at, how they can contribute to others, their responsibilities as citizens, etc. I'd like to see a re-thinking of our entire educational system, with a focus on lifelong learning. What would be wrong with a cultural tradition of encouraging people to go back to school every decade or two? It seems like a huge waste of human capitol not to.

xyzzy123 8y ago
One problem with lifelong learning via formal institutions is that the less well off are “tapped out” already with debt and expenses while those with good careers (enough to save for an n-year break) face an enormous opportunity cost, hundreds of thousands of dollars. There are lots of people who would love to go back to college already and learn something new but the financial treadmill is running too fast to get off. More flexible learning options can help with this.
- Retric 8y ago
  Going back full time always has a huge opertunity cost. But so does front loading education. Adults often go back for masters degrees which are manageable as it’s less material.
- leggomylibro 8y ago
  It would definitely need to be offset by subsidies, but maybe that could come in the form of something that people could claim every 5-20 years like a tax return. It seems like we have a lot of levers to pull to make life easier on people doing things like that; tuition reimbursement, housing/food/course material subsidies, benefits like health care, child care, help with transit, etc. But I guess you would have to look out for a resurgence of scammy public for-profit institutions.

taneq 8y ago

Why bribe your way into a school when you could just buy or build your own?