7 ms·

For me this is not just the EU copyright bill that faces legitimacy issues but the whole European Parliament. The vote only served to highlight systemic issues

For me this is not just the EU copyright bill that faces legitimacy issues but the whole European Parliament. The vote only served to highlight systemic issues regarding how votes are conducted.

gambiting 8y ago
How so? Can you expand on that?
- amelius 8y ago
  I think the words "accidental vote" in the title say enough.
- fasterthanlime 8y ago
  Here's MEP Dobromir Sośnierz showing how the two different kind of votes look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLh9DMuetm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLh9DMuetm4 It seemed incredible to me how one could "accidentally vote wrong", but seeing the process and speed at which it goes, I totally buy it now.
  - seba_dos1 8y ago
    Keep in mind that this video comes from a very biased source (an unimportant party that literally went to elections with a claim to want to "destroy the EU from inside"). The issue may be real, but beware of how exactly it's being painted in this material.
    - lisper 8y ago
      If this issue is real (and it seems plausible to me) then destroying the EU from the inside might very well be an honorable thing to do.
      - trickstra 8y ago
        It most certainly isn't plausible. Have you ever seen any livestreams or full recordings of parliamentary sessions? Not necessary from EP. They are voting whether to have 10 minute break. They are voting whether to accept the daily schedule. They are voting whether to follow with the next point in the schedule. They are voting whether to start voting. Those are the ones voted by raising your hands. Those are the ones that nobody expects any protests so the people don't even raise their eyes. Copyright act was voted by names, otherwise Julia Reda wouldn't have the lists
        lisper 8y ago
        > Copyright act was voted by names And yet there are ten EU parliament members on the record saying that they voted in favor of the copyright act "by accident": https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18283837/europe-copyright-directive-accidental-vote-meps-amendment https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18283837/europe-copyright... So there's clearly something wrong with the procedures.
        jeremyjh 8y ago
        Sounds like a great way to have your cake and eat it too.
        isostatic 8y ago
        In Westminster the voting system means you have to leave the chamber and go through into another room. Takes about 15 minutes. You get MPs that vote both yes and no. People saying they “made a mistake” only say such a thing because they regret it - they’ve probably never had anyone contact them about which way they voted in the past.
        IanCal 8y ago
        I'm not sure how a different chamber votes is all that relevant. > You get MPs that vote both yes and no. Do you? I've not heard of many issues with the process apart from things typically hundreds of years ago. > People saying they “made a mistake” only say such a thing because they regret it Or because they actually did make a mistake.
  - herbstein 8y ago
    The clips he shows of the chairman looks a lot like "formal" votes. We have them here in Denmark too. It often goes something like this: > Bill x can be fast-tracked. Does anyone oppose? <half a second break> It has been fast-tracked. It's done like that because no one is going to oppose.
  - trickstra 8y ago
    the lack of context in the video suggests strong populism. I don't believe this is how the copyright act was voted (I'm actually pretty sure that one was voted by names, not by hands, because we have the voting results on the european website)
    - trickstra 8y ago
      I managed to find the actual video of how the Copyright Act was voted: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/EN/vod.html?mode=unit&vodLanguage=EN&startTime=20190326-12:48:04-384# http://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/EN/vod.html?mode=unit&... I see absolutely no reason to excuse those who failed to vote correctly in this setting.

For me this is not just the EU copyright bill that faces legitimacy issues but the whole European Parliament. The vote only served to highlight systemic issues regarding how votes are conducted.

gambiting 8y ago

How so? Can you expand on that?

amelius 8y ago
I think the words "accidental vote" in the title say enough.
fasterthanlime 8y ago
Here's MEP Dobromir Sośnierz showing how the two different kind of votes look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLh9DMuetm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLh9DMuetm4 It seemed incredible to me how one could "accidentally vote wrong", but seeing the process and speed at which it goes, I totally buy it now.
- seba_dos1 8y ago
  Keep in mind that this video comes from a very biased source (an unimportant party that literally went to elections with a claim to want to "destroy the EU from inside"). The issue may be real, but beware of how exactly it's being painted in this material.
  - lisper 8y ago
    If this issue is real (and it seems plausible to me) then destroying the EU from the inside might very well be an honorable thing to do.
    - trickstra 8y ago
      It most certainly isn't plausible. Have you ever seen any livestreams or full recordings of parliamentary sessions? Not necessary from EP. They are voting whether to have 10 minute break. They are voting whether to accept the daily schedule. They are voting whether to follow with the next point in the schedule. They are voting whether to start voting. Those are the ones voted by raising your hands. Those are the ones that nobody expects any protests so the people don't even raise their eyes. Copyright act was voted by names, otherwise Julia Reda wouldn't have the lists
      - lisper 8y ago
        > Copyright act was voted by names And yet there are ten EU parliament members on the record saying that they voted in favor of the copyright act "by accident": https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18283837/europe-copyright-directive-accidental-vote-meps-amendment https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18283837/europe-copyright... So there's clearly something wrong with the procedures.
        jeremyjh 8y ago
        Sounds like a great way to have your cake and eat it too.
        isostatic 8y ago
        In Westminster the voting system means you have to leave the chamber and go through into another room. Takes about 15 minutes. You get MPs that vote both yes and no. People saying they “made a mistake” only say such a thing because they regret it - they’ve probably never had anyone contact them about which way they voted in the past.
        IanCal 8y ago
        I'm not sure how a different chamber votes is all that relevant. > You get MPs that vote both yes and no. Do you? I've not heard of many issues with the process apart from things typically hundreds of years ago. > People saying they “made a mistake” only say such a thing because they regret it Or because they actually did make a mistake.
- herbstein 8y ago
  The clips he shows of the chairman looks a lot like "formal" votes. We have them here in Denmark too. It often goes something like this: > Bill x can be fast-tracked. Does anyone oppose? <half a second break> It has been fast-tracked. It's done like that because no one is going to oppose.
- trickstra 8y ago
  the lack of context in the video suggests strong populism. I don't believe this is how the copyright act was voted (I'm actually pretty sure that one was voted by names, not by hands, because we have the voting results on the european website)
  - trickstra 8y ago
    I managed to find the actual video of how the Copyright Act was voted: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/EN/vod.html?mode=unit&vodLanguage=EN&startTime=20190326-12:48:04-384# http://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/EN/vod.html?mode=unit&... I see absolutely no reason to excuse those who failed to vote correctly in this setting.