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I eat vegan food, but I also recognise that there's a distinction between someone keeping rescued chickens in a back garden, and keeping them in tiny cages or o

by hjek 8y ago

I eat vegan food, but I also recognise that there's a distinction between someone keeping rescued chickens in a back garden, and keeping them in tiny cages or on the floor giant barns with no light in such crammed conditions that they start cannibalising each other (which are the conditions of about 90% of egg laying hens in the UK). Even though I wouldn't eat their eggs, I can't really see the problem with having chicken around if they don't suffer. For people who eat vegan for ethical reasons, my impression is that suffering is the main concern.

jandrese 8y ago
Usually they consider stealing the eggs from the chickens to be incompatible with veganism as well, even if the chickens are free range.
- scienceman 8y ago
  What if the chickens give you the eggs?
  - zapzupnz 8y ago
    Trouble is that there is no chicken alive capable of expressing with out a single trace of ambiguity such an intention.
- Pharmakon 8y ago
  Why? If they’re not fertilized eggs then the other option is letting them rot (or watch as mama chicken eats them, because contrary to our weird fantasies about the nature of nature, it is rough out there). Besides, it’s not theft, it’s a trade for food, security, and lodging.
  - nkrisc 8y ago
    It's not rational at that point anymore, it's almost religious.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    > Besides, it’s not theft, it’s a trade for food, security, and lodging. That sort of logic gets you back to farming animals for meat though. We're giving them a relatively cushy life compared to wild animals (at least in some cases), but cutting it short. It's easier to maintain the moral high ground if you simply cut out all animal products period.
    - Pharmakon 8y ago
      So... eggs and honey are slippery slopes. Really. And vegans wonder why the public at large won’t engage with them?
    - Retra 8y ago
      May as well cut out all those vegetables & grains that are fertilized with animal byproducts as well.
dalbasal 8y ago
It is, usually. My point was that I find it surprising people with this position who "break" for medical or energy reasons don't generally arrive at the shellfish conclusion. They eat eggs, dairy, meat or fish.

by hjek 8y ago

jandrese 8y ago

Usually they consider stealing the eggs from the chickens to be incompatible with veganism as well, even if the chickens are free range.

scienceman 8y ago
What if the chickens give you the eggs?
- zapzupnz 8y ago
  Trouble is that there is no chicken alive capable of expressing with out a single trace of ambiguity such an intention.
Pharmakon 8y ago
Why? If they’re not fertilized eggs then the other option is letting them rot (or watch as mama chicken eats them, because contrary to our weird fantasies about the nature of nature, it is rough out there). Besides, it’s not theft, it’s a trade for food, security, and lodging.
- nkrisc 8y ago
  It's not rational at that point anymore, it's almost religious.
- jandrese 8y ago
  > Besides, it’s not theft, it’s a trade for food, security, and lodging. That sort of logic gets you back to farming animals for meat though. We're giving them a relatively cushy life compared to wild animals (at least in some cases), but cutting it short. It's easier to maintain the moral high ground if you simply cut out all animal products period.
  - Pharmakon 8y ago
    So... eggs and honey are slippery slopes. Really. And vegans wonder why the public at large won’t engage with them?
  - Retra 8y ago
    May as well cut out all those vegetables & grains that are fertilized with animal byproducts as well.

dalbasal 8y ago

It is, usually. My point was that I find it surprising people with this position who "break" for medical or energy reasons don't generally arrive at the shellfish conclusion. They eat eggs, dairy, meat or fish.