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The original referendum itself was the real heart of the disorder. The government is now tying itself into knots trying to put into action a perceived desired a
by dak1 8y ago
The original referendum itself was the real heart of the disorder. The government is now tying itself into knots trying to put into action a perceived desired action, even though the general concept of "Brexit" has a tremendous number of vastly different interpretations, and nothing close to a majority actually exists for any of those options.
There never should have been a referendum to begin with, and the idea that a simple majority vote could have such dramatic consequences was frankly actually undemocratic.
Based on how entrenched certain positions are (see the DUP, for example), the (rightly) strong opposition to a No Deal, and the fact that ANY deal is going to make a majority of people unhappy, it would seem there is no majority in Parliament willing to be connected with the actual outcome.
Therefore, it seems the most likely scenario by far is simply an extension. That will probably lead to a General Election or a Second Referendum, where the "choice" can be said to be given to voters, which would also give MPs cover for any decision made.
The EU will not decide against an extension either, as their preferred outcome is the UK remaining in the EU. The longer this drags on, and the more impractical Brexit options are shown to be, the more the likelihood the UK decides to remain increases.
The only way I see the UK actually leaving the EU is if hard Brexiteers decide to back May's deal; however, that would be considerably more politically risky for them than simply continuing to take a hardline position — even if the end result is remain.
- dingaling 8y ago> was frankly actually undemocratic The referendum was infinitely more democratic than the decision to join the EU, which was taken by PM John Major and his colleagues when they signed the Maastricht Treaty in 1992. No-one asked the people.
- dTal 8y ago>>could have such dramatic consequences was frankly actually undemocratic The consequences of joining were far less dramatic than the consequences of suddenly leaving.
- infiniteseeker 8y ago>> The consequences of joining were far less dramatic than the consequences of suddenly leaving. I have no dog in this fight (not British or European) but this statement sounds like false equivalence to me.
- dTal 8y agoIn what way?
- tigershark 8y agoAbsolutely not. UK is a representative democracy. So joining the Europe was by definition a democratic decision.
- alistairSH 8y agoThat's not exactly true. The people elected members to Parliament. Those MPs selected a government, with Major at its head. It was a close decision - Major almost lost the confidence of the House - but the treaty was not signed by some rogue autocrat. Really no different than any other treaty in the UK. Not everything must be put to a public vote. The Executive has the power to sign treaties. Parliament may only advise, or in the extreme, withdraw confidence and call for a new government.
- mnm1 8y agoBy that reasoning nothing Parliament (or Congress in the US) ever does is democratic because no one asked the people directly. That's not how the government is set up. In fact, this was a non-binding referendum. If Parliament decides not to leave it will be just as democratic as if they decide to leave. Too bad they don't have the wherewithal to make the right decision for their country instead of being swayed by a non-binding referendum. Or maybe they do? Who knows what that decision is other than Parliament? Either way, it'll be democratic no matter what they do.
- roenxi 8y ago> was frankly actually undemocratic The term you seem to be searching for is some variant of 'stupid', 'ill-advised' or 'deceitful'. There is nothing undemocratic about it; democracies famously turn up flavour-of-the-month decisions in defiance of tradition and whatever the elites think is a good idea. That is why most democracies don't generally go with the old school approach where the whole town meets on a hill and counts hands; the results are too volatile for the powerful to be comfortable with them.
- amelius 8y agoYes. Given that the elite is small, a referendum is almost synonymous with populist governance.