3 ms·

Can you elaborate? I’m not familiar with these. What are the pros/cons? As for the Apple Card, I’ve been fairly dismissive of most of Apple’s recent products

by oddity 8y ago

Can you elaborate? I’m not familiar with these. What are the pros/cons? As for the Apple Card, I’ve been fairly dismissive of most of Apple’s recent products, but this is the most interested I’ve been in an Apple product since the iPhone. It feels like a similar situation: a “device” that seems simpler to use than existing offerings leveraged off of a partnership with a company that has nothing to lose by playing along with Apple’s game. It might not be the best card offering in terms of features, but it seems like a solid choice for the masses.

gaogao 8y ago
Uber has a fairly solid 4% cashback on restraunts, plus some high percentages on hotels and online shopping.
kevindong 8y ago
Apple is acting as though their rewards is the most generous reward system ever, period. In reality, it is not even close. For instance, you can trivially get 2% cashback on all purchases (regardless of whether you're using Apple Pay or not) without annual fees: - Citi Double Cash: unlimited 2% back on everything; regardless of payment method; no annual fee - Fidelity Rewards: unlimited 2% back on everything; regardless of payment method; no annual fee --- 2% is the minimum you should earn on any credit card purchase. There are a bunch of generous rewards cards that offer special cashback rates on certain categories. For instance, the US Bank Cash+ card [0] lets you pick two categories to get 5% cashback on, albeit you're limited to $2,000 in spending per quarter. After that $2,000, you only accrue 1% back. One of the categories is 'Electronics Stores', which includes Apple. In other words, you can get 5% back on Apple purchases (on up to $2,000/quarter in purchases) while the Apple Card offers unlimited 3% back on Apple purchases. There is no annual fee for this card. The Uber Visa card [1] gets you 4% back on dining and 3% back on hotels/flights with no annual fee. The Chase Freedom and Discover it cards both have rotating 5% categories (subject to a $1,500 per quarter maximum spend) without annual fees. Meaning, you get 5% back on specific categories on each card which change every quarter. In 2018, the Chase Freedom card had gas stations, internet/cable/phone, Google/Apple Pay, grocery stores, PayPal, gas stations, Lyft, Walgreens, department stores, and wholesale clubs as some of their rotating categories [2]. Also in 2018, Discover had gas stations, wholesale clubs, grocery stores, restaurants, and Amazon as their categories [3]. Admittedly, I believe most of the banks named above charge the "normal" fees that Apple has stated they will not be charging (i.e. penalty APR rates, late fees, etc.). But in reality, responsible users of credit cards were never going to pay those kinds of fees anyway. [0]: https://cashplus.usbank.com/merchants/index https://cashplus.usbank.com/merchants/index [1]: https://www.uber.com/c/uber-credit-card/ https://www.uber.com/c/uber-credit-card/ [2]: https://thetravelsisters.com/chase-freedom-categories-2018-calendar/ https://thetravelsisters.com/chase-freedom-categories-2018-c... [3]: https://awardwallet.com/blog/discover-5-categories-calendar-2018/ https://awardwallet.com/blog/discover-5-categories-calendar-...
- toast0 8y ago
  > Apple is acting as though their rewards is the most generous reward system ever, period. In reality, it is not even close. I'm looking forward to hearing about how Apple invented rewards in a few years.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    Sort of, Apple’s detractors will as usual say something like “Apple and their fans think they invented rewards!” with everyone else looking at them strangely.
- baddox 8y ago
  > both have rotating 5% categories (subject to a $1,500 per quarter maximum spend) without annual fees So, $75 of rewards per quarter? That’s not even worth the trouble it would take to apply.
  - tdurden 8y ago
    Cash back reduces from 5% to 1% after $1500 is spent that quarter
  - kevindong 8y ago
    You're optimizing the spending that you were going to do anyway. For instance, I have to pay the utility bill no matter what; I spend about $3k/year in utilities. I could put that spending on my 2% card and get back $60/year in rewards. Or if I take the time to do my research I could find out that by putting it on my US Bank Cash+ card, I can get 5% back which comes out to be $150 in rewards/year (a gain of $90/year). The only additional work was the 5 minutes to apply for the card, and the 5 minutes/month it takes to log in to the website, pay the card, and log out. A $90 gain / 60 minutes of work per year = $90/hour in "reward income." In practice, you don't use most of the 5% categories. Whenever a quarter with useless categories comes around, just stick the card into a drawer and check back in 3 months. You're correct that the ongoing rewards rates are typically fairly anemic overall. The real rewards in credit cards comes from the sign up bonuses. It's pretty easy to get $500-1000 of value by signing up for a credit card and spending $3-5k in the first 3 months of card membership.

by oddity 8y ago

gaogao 8y ago

Uber has a fairly solid 4% cashback on restraunts, plus some high percentages on hotels and online shopping.

kevindong 8y ago

Apple is acting as though their rewards is the most generous reward system ever, period. In reality, it is not even close. For instance, you can trivially get 2% cashback on all purchases (regardless of whether you're using Apple Pay or not) without annual fees: - Citi Double Cash: unlimited 2% back on everything; regardless of payment method; no annual fee - Fidelity Rewards: unlimited 2% back on everything; regardless of payment method; no annual fee --- 2% is the minimum you should earn on any credit card purchase. There are a bunch of generous rewards cards that offer special cashback rates on certain categories. For instance, the US Bank Cash+ card [0] lets you pick two categories to get 5% cashback on, albeit you're limited to $2,000 in spending per quarter. After that $2,000, you only accrue 1% back. One of the categories is 'Electronics Stores', which includes Apple. In other words, you can get 5% back on Apple purchases (on up to $2,000/quarter in purchases) while the Apple Card offers unlimited 3% back on Apple purchases. There is no annual fee for this card. The Uber Visa card [1] gets you 4% back on dining and 3% back on hotels/flights with no annual fee. The Chase Freedom and Discover it cards both have rotating 5% categories (subject to a $1,500 per quarter maximum spend) without annual fees. Meaning, you get 5% back on specific categories on each card which change every quarter. In 2018, the Chase Freedom card had gas stations, internet/cable/phone, Google/Apple Pay, grocery stores, PayPal, gas stations, Lyft, Walgreens, department stores, and wholesale clubs as some of their rotating categories [2]. Also in 2018, Discover had gas stations, wholesale clubs, grocery stores, restaurants, and Amazon as their categories [3]. Admittedly, I believe most of the banks named above charge the "normal" fees that Apple has stated they will not be charging (i.e. penalty APR rates, late fees, etc.). But in reality, responsible users of credit cards were never going to pay those kinds of fees anyway. [0]: https://cashplus.usbank.com/merchants/index https://cashplus.usbank.com/merchants/index [1]: https://www.uber.com/c/uber-credit-card/ https://www.uber.com/c/uber-credit-card/ [2]: https://thetravelsisters.com/chase-freedom-categories-2018-calendar/ https://thetravelsisters.com/chase-freedom-categories-2018-c... [3]: https://awardwallet.com/blog/discover-5-categories-calendar-2018/ https://awardwallet.com/blog/discover-5-categories-calendar-...

toast0 8y ago
> Apple is acting as though their rewards is the most generous reward system ever, period. In reality, it is not even close. I'm looking forward to hearing about how Apple invented rewards in a few years.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Sort of, Apple’s detractors will as usual say something like “Apple and their fans think they invented rewards!” with everyone else looking at them strangely.
baddox 8y ago
> both have rotating 5% categories (subject to a $1,500 per quarter maximum spend) without annual fees So, $75 of rewards per quarter? That’s not even worth the trouble it would take to apply.
- tdurden 8y ago
  Cash back reduces from 5% to 1% after $1500 is spent that quarter
- kevindong 8y ago
  You're optimizing the spending that you were going to do anyway. For instance, I have to pay the utility bill no matter what; I spend about $3k/year in utilities. I could put that spending on my 2% card and get back $60/year in rewards. Or if I take the time to do my research I could find out that by putting it on my US Bank Cash+ card, I can get 5% back which comes out to be $150 in rewards/year (a gain of $90/year). The only additional work was the 5 minutes to apply for the card, and the 5 minutes/month it takes to log in to the website, pay the card, and log out. A $90 gain / 60 minutes of work per year = $90/hour in "reward income." In practice, you don't use most of the 5% categories. Whenever a quarter with useless categories comes around, just stick the card into a drawer and check back in 3 months. You're correct that the ongoing rewards rates are typically fairly anemic overall. The real rewards in credit cards comes from the sign up bonuses. It's pretty easy to get $500-1000 of value by signing up for a credit card and spending $3-5k in the first 3 months of card membership.