3 ms·

In the US it's quite common for a BS in comp sci to include 1+ year of required liberal arts courses as a "general education" requirement. It's not a stretch t

by lumost 8y ago

In the US it's quite common for a BS in comp sci to include 1+ year of required liberal arts courses as a "general education" requirement. It's not a stretch to look at this and wonder if a more focused 2-3 year or 4 year degrees would produce an equivalent or better result.

cosmodisk 8y ago
Disagree. University education is not just about learning how to do something,but more about developing yourself as a person and those additional courses are necessary. CS graduates with little to no exposure to other areas or fields are useless.This eventually results in people who's first email is 'send me the details to your api' instead of asking what issues I'm having,why i'm having and etc. There are also so many businesses opportunities that only become visible after exploring various fields, including liberal arts.
moosey 8y ago
I continue to find great value in the Liberal Arts courses that I took when I went to University. Philosophy, in particular, serves me a great deal: it has helped me to understand the world and personal narratives that I live under, and aided me in finding an ethical framework that I might not have developed otherwise. Regardless, courses in English, Literature, and other courses I had to take outside of my main coursework for Computer Science has made my personal experience better, I believe, or at least more fulfilling. I believe that it is also the job of a good education to prepare someone to be a good member of a Democracy, and as part of that one must be able to accept other tolerant points of view, and be able to reach compromise. Courses all throughout our education should aid us in developing the empathy necessary for the process to work. It appears that we have failed, in the US, in this regard. Quite horribly.
- hnzix 8y ago
  In some Universities these mandatory Liberal Arts "electives" are fluffy filler topics where you are forced to buy the textbook written by the lecturer. You can only choose between four equally fluffy filler topics per semester. I was fucking furious when I realized I'd been duped. I'm a voracious omnivore and I do believe Universities should promote wider learning but this was a straight up money extraction scam.
  - jhbadger 8y ago
    I think it is worse the other way around though. Science majors generally have to take real history and English classes, often side by side with humanities students. Humanities majors generally are corralled into things like "Biology and You" and "Physics for Poets". It's unfortunate because it isn't surprising that these people then fall for the postmodern critique of science as nothing particularly special because they've only been exposed to dumbed-down versions of it.
    - moosey 8y ago
      Watching my daughter struggle with some difficult course choices that she made in high school, I find it troubling how our entire grading system works. We shouldn't be punished for choosing difficult courses, and actually learning the material, even if it is slightly behind the pace of the course itself. Unfortunately, doing so has implications for your entire future in the United States (unless you have the money to buy your way into college, of course).
  - moosey 8y ago
    I've been thinking about this comment a lot the last few days. It could be specific to the University I went to, or some aspect of the fact that I went to a Jesuit University that made the quality of the philosophy coursework I took so high. Regardless, I'm sorry you had that experience.
WkndTriathlete 8y ago
Define "better"? I'd argue that the general lack of critical thought, ethics, and compassion for humanity in general - including those with rarefied STEM degrees - is a direct result of not enough liberal arts classes during college. Then again, twenty-five years ago I wouldn't have even entertained the idea that more liberal education classes for me would serve me and the world around me better. It wasn't until I started reading those books out of curiosity later in life that I really appreciated their value.
- craftinator 8y ago
  Your last paragraph really sums up my perception of the liberal arts courses I was required to take: they don't have value at this point in my life. They are a large waste of time, and a massive waste of money. I would be quite happy taking those courses later on in life, at my leiser, when the opportunity cost they incur is not nearly so high.
  - mythrwy 8y ago
    Or not at all in some cases. Too much of that stuff is indoctrination and opinion being passed off as education as of late. It results in people who believe they are "educated" because they have learned to hold certain opinions. And judging others "education" by the opinions they hold rather than fact that they know. That isn't to say an understanding of history, of languages etc isn't worth having, it certainly is. Some of the other stuff not so much. Additionally, the sad reality on the ground often is a person is judged as educated by the display of indoctrination they receive, so practically speaking, at this point in time it does have some value can open doors. But that's kind of BS really imo, and I don't care for it.
    - craftinator 8y ago
      Ahhhh this is a whole new can of worms. I have a personal anecdote about the educational indoctrination issue as well: I transferred colleges between 2nd and 3rd year. My new university's registration system would not allow me to register for classes until I'd completed their "Cultural Inclusivity Module". This was about 6 hours of clicking through a pretty (but disfunctional) web app which would have you read several pages, then ask you 10 questions. If you missed more than one, it would put you back on the first page, forcing you to do a minimum timed rereading of the content. The module was entirely fluff about how I am not allowed to perform microagressions against cultural ideas that I disagree with, even if they are despicable. It was full of factual errors, incomplete sentences and ideas, and the best of all, sometimes at the end of a section when I went to submit my answers, the submit button would be grayed out, forcing me to go through the mind fucking content again. I ended up refusing to do it, had a conference with the dean where I explained that no where in my obligations to the school did I agree to perform classes for no credit, against my will, while paying for them. Twas quite a time to be alive!

by lumost 8y ago

cosmodisk 8y ago

Disagree. University education is not just about learning how to do something,but more about developing yourself as a person and those additional courses are necessary. CS graduates with little to no exposure to other areas or fields are useless.This eventually results in people who's first email is 'send me the details to your api' instead of asking what issues I'm having,why i'm having and etc. There are also so many businesses opportunities that only become visible after exploring various fields, including liberal arts.

moosey 8y ago

I continue to find great value in the Liberal Arts courses that I took when I went to University. Philosophy, in particular, serves me a great deal: it has helped me to understand the world and personal narratives that I live under, and aided me in finding an ethical framework that I might not have developed otherwise. Regardless, courses in English, Literature, and other courses I had to take outside of my main coursework for Computer Science has made my personal experience better, I believe, or at least more fulfilling. I believe that it is also the job of a good education to prepare someone to be a good member of a Democracy, and as part of that one must be able to accept other tolerant points of view, and be able to reach compromise. Courses all throughout our education should aid us in developing the empathy necessary for the process to work. It appears that we have failed, in the US, in this regard. Quite horribly.

hnzix 8y ago
In some Universities these mandatory Liberal Arts "electives" are fluffy filler topics where you are forced to buy the textbook written by the lecturer. You can only choose between four equally fluffy filler topics per semester. I was fucking furious when I realized I'd been duped. I'm a voracious omnivore and I do believe Universities should promote wider learning but this was a straight up money extraction scam.
- jhbadger 8y ago
  I think it is worse the other way around though. Science majors generally have to take real history and English classes, often side by side with humanities students. Humanities majors generally are corralled into things like "Biology and You" and "Physics for Poets". It's unfortunate because it isn't surprising that these people then fall for the postmodern critique of science as nothing particularly special because they've only been exposed to dumbed-down versions of it.
  - moosey 8y ago
    Watching my daughter struggle with some difficult course choices that she made in high school, I find it troubling how our entire grading system works. We shouldn't be punished for choosing difficult courses, and actually learning the material, even if it is slightly behind the pace of the course itself. Unfortunately, doing so has implications for your entire future in the United States (unless you have the money to buy your way into college, of course).
- moosey 8y ago
  I've been thinking about this comment a lot the last few days. It could be specific to the University I went to, or some aspect of the fact that I went to a Jesuit University that made the quality of the philosophy coursework I took so high. Regardless, I'm sorry you had that experience.

WkndTriathlete 8y ago

Define "better"? I'd argue that the general lack of critical thought, ethics, and compassion for humanity in general - including those with rarefied STEM degrees - is a direct result of not enough liberal arts classes during college. Then again, twenty-five years ago I wouldn't have even entertained the idea that more liberal education classes for me would serve me and the world around me better. It wasn't until I started reading those books out of curiosity later in life that I really appreciated their value.

craftinator 8y ago
Your last paragraph really sums up my perception of the liberal arts courses I was required to take: they don't have value at this point in my life. They are a large waste of time, and a massive waste of money. I would be quite happy taking those courses later on in life, at my leiser, when the opportunity cost they incur is not nearly so high.
- mythrwy 8y ago
  Or not at all in some cases. Too much of that stuff is indoctrination and opinion being passed off as education as of late. It results in people who believe they are "educated" because they have learned to hold certain opinions. And judging others "education" by the opinions they hold rather than fact that they know. That isn't to say an understanding of history, of languages etc isn't worth having, it certainly is. Some of the other stuff not so much. Additionally, the sad reality on the ground often is a person is judged as educated by the display of indoctrination they receive, so practically speaking, at this point in time it does have some value can open doors. But that's kind of BS really imo, and I don't care for it.
  - craftinator 8y ago
    Ahhhh this is a whole new can of worms. I have a personal anecdote about the educational indoctrination issue as well: I transferred colleges between 2nd and 3rd year. My new university's registration system would not allow me to register for classes until I'd completed their "Cultural Inclusivity Module". This was about 6 hours of clicking through a pretty (but disfunctional) web app which would have you read several pages, then ask you 10 questions. If you missed more than one, it would put you back on the first page, forcing you to do a minimum timed rereading of the content. The module was entirely fluff about how I am not allowed to perform microagressions against cultural ideas that I disagree with, even if they are despicable. It was full of factual errors, incomplete sentences and ideas, and the best of all, sometimes at the end of a section when I went to submit my answers, the submit button would be grayed out, forcing me to go through the mind fucking content again. I ended up refusing to do it, had a conference with the dean where I explained that no where in my obligations to the school did I agree to perform classes for no credit, against my will, while paying for them. Twas quite a time to be alive!