47 ms·

I disagree with some of your sub points from point 1. Selling parts, providing documentation, and building repair manuals are forcing behaviors form companies.

I disagree with some of your sub points from point 1. Selling parts, providing documentation, and building repair manuals are forcing behaviors form companies. Compelling them to do provide a service or product that they would not otherwise provide. Legislation that prevents certain actions is great, but I'm wary of any compulsion from governments to companies and individuals. If you want to take stuff apart, Go for it! But Apple should not be required to write, edit, and sell manuals that it does not want to.

simion314 8y ago
But why should Apple be special? As an example for cars most countries have laws that force them to provide you parts years after the car is no longer sold, don't you think that having companies not selling you parts make them have to much control over you? 1 So let me know why should some companies not sell parts? 2 why not share the pdf with schematics and diagnostic software or punish people that share them(is not cost)
- dmitriid 8y ago
  IIRC there are also laws that after a certain time anyone is allowed to produce and cell (certain?) car parts to ensure that cars that are on the road can still be repaired and serviced. Same should be applied to electronics (and a wide range of other consumer goods).
  - simion314 8y ago
    Exactly, imagine the abuse if say only Ford could sell Ford windshields or other parts and you had to change the parts on approved store that may not even exist in your country. I bet Ford would like top patent and copyright the parts and have the monopoly on them but fortunately we have laws for that and we need similar laws for electronics too.
Dylan16807 8y ago
How do you feel about mandatory warranty periods? I see the requirement of repair manuals for a mass-produced product as a very similar thing, and both are justified as part of ensuring a fair bargain where you get what you paid for, not a device that randomly fails and wastes all the money you put into it.
- JoshTriplett 8y ago
  > How do you feel about mandatory warranty periods? You know what you're getting when you buy the product. It's critically important to be able to say "no warranty whatsoever"; Open Source wouldn't exist without that, and neither would the (still quite small) open hardware community. Nor, for that matter, would small hardware manufacturers. (I do feel that you should always be legally allowed to try repairing something. That doesn't mean the manufacturer has to actively help you, or do work for you for free.)
  - simion314 8y ago
    First of all, all open source is free or you can build it yourself, so if the product does not work you did not wasted your money because you did not bought it, you signed no contract(I know you can pay for open source and for support). >You know what you're getting when you buy the product This is not true, even today many people go in store, browse things and buy without going and read tons of reviews and complains about the product, do you think that the majority of people that buy a printer know the crap the manufactures do related to the cartridges(it is not printed on the box)? Companies would abuse their power to make more money, I remember when a law had to be passed here in Romania so that money exchanges would print the commission rates on big letters at minimum 10 centimeters because their were abusing people and no competition or educating people fixed it. better to fix the root cause then work around with free market ideology.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    > You know what you're getting when you buy the product. No you don't. That's most of the point of warranties. > Open Source Sharing source code isn't a sale. If you do sell a program, open/closed source doesn't matter, and you don't need the ability to say "no warranty". > open hardware community. Nor, for that matter, would small hardware manufacturers. If you make more than a thousand of something, you have the resources to include a few diagrams and a simple but useful manual. For now I won't say anything about smaller quantities.

simion314 8y ago

But why should Apple be special? As an example for cars most countries have laws that force them to provide you parts years after the car is no longer sold, don't you think that having companies not selling you parts make them have to much control over you? 1 So let me know why should some companies not sell parts? 2 why not share the pdf with schematics and diagnostic software or punish people that share them(is not cost)

dmitriid 8y ago
IIRC there are also laws that after a certain time anyone is allowed to produce and cell (certain?) car parts to ensure that cars that are on the road can still be repaired and serviced. Same should be applied to electronics (and a wide range of other consumer goods).
- simion314 8y ago
  Exactly, imagine the abuse if say only Ford could sell Ford windshields or other parts and you had to change the parts on approved store that may not even exist in your country. I bet Ford would like top patent and copyright the parts and have the monopoly on them but fortunately we have laws for that and we need similar laws for electronics too.

Dylan16807 8y ago

How do you feel about mandatory warranty periods? I see the requirement of repair manuals for a mass-produced product as a very similar thing, and both are justified as part of ensuring a fair bargain where you get what you paid for, not a device that randomly fails and wastes all the money you put into it.

JoshTriplett 8y ago
> How do you feel about mandatory warranty periods? You know what you're getting when you buy the product. It's critically important to be able to say "no warranty whatsoever"; Open Source wouldn't exist without that, and neither would the (still quite small) open hardware community. Nor, for that matter, would small hardware manufacturers. (I do feel that you should always be legally allowed to try repairing something. That doesn't mean the manufacturer has to actively help you, or do work for you for free.)
- simion314 8y ago
  First of all, all open source is free or you can build it yourself, so if the product does not work you did not wasted your money because you did not bought it, you signed no contract(I know you can pay for open source and for support). >You know what you're getting when you buy the product This is not true, even today many people go in store, browse things and buy without going and read tons of reviews and complains about the product, do you think that the majority of people that buy a printer know the crap the manufactures do related to the cartridges(it is not printed on the box)? Companies would abuse their power to make more money, I remember when a law had to be passed here in Romania so that money exchanges would print the commission rates on big letters at minimum 10 centimeters because their were abusing people and no competition or educating people fixed it. better to fix the root cause then work around with free market ideology.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  > You know what you're getting when you buy the product. No you don't. That's most of the point of warranties. > Open Source Sharing source code isn't a sale. If you do sell a program, open/closed source doesn't matter, and you don't need the ability to say "no warranty". > open hardware community. Nor, for that matter, would small hardware manufacturers. If you make more than a thousand of something, you have the resources to include a few diagrams and a simple but useful manual. For now I won't say anything about smaller quantities.