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Nothing you are saying is explicitly wrong. Yeah life is easier when you have self discipline. But you're presenting what you're saying as a counter to what the

Nothing you are saying is explicitly wrong. Yeah life is easier when you have self discipline. But you're presenting what you're saying as a counter to what the other person is saying, which is that having all of those extra environmental factors (personal chef, housekeeping, etc) make it way easier. What you're saying is self discipline for the common folk is easier when they work on it vs if they don't. That doesn't negate that while them working/focusing on self discipline is easier by, say, a factor of 25% (numbers are just for explanation purposes), having to not worry about doing the dishes, planning your meals, etc makes it easier by 85 or 90%. Everything is a matter of self discipline, sure, but that's one factor out of a billion. You seem to be arguing that losing weight or getting your life together can be as easy as it is for the rich and powerful if you want it bad enough and take some vitamin D. That makes it easier, but not as easy as it is for, say, Jeff Bezos to exercise every day.

matwood 8y ago
In some ways it's easier to exercise self-discipline when someone is super rich, but in others it is harder. For example, look at all of the rich and powerful with drug and alcohol problems. When someone has almost everything it is easy to become lazy and/or abuse substances. Is it easier for Bezos to get out of bed 20 minutes earlier and do 100 burpees than it is for you or I? IMO, it's not that different.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >In some ways it's easier to exercise self-discipline when someone is super rich, but in others it is harder. For example, look at all of the rich and powerful with drug and alcohol problems. When someone has almost everything it is easy to become lazy and/or abuse substances. I look at them, and also see how it's easier for them to get out of their abuse problems, with top notch rehabilitation facilities and everything set up for them. They also get top notch medical assistance while doing them, and first rate drugs. Many even have their doctors prepare the stuff. Which they can afford and do at a nice environment, not some crack house. And when they're caught by the police, they usually get a slap on the wrist and some rehab time, not hard jail like commoners. And when you stop doing drugs, you get to go back to a nice warm house, and financial independence. Not to your abusing home, or living in the streets. There are tons of junkies around where I live (not a shabby or poor neighborhood even, just has a shabby square nearby), that don't have these easy ways out. Now, imagine a rich person, getting out of drugs, while enjoying all those niceties while he was abusing them, and saying "I did it all through my self-discipline" -- and implying by that that common junkies lack the same level of self-discipline (while they might have 2x his self-discipline but face 10x the problems to overcome).
RandomInteger4 8y ago
What does it matter how easy it is for the rich to do anything? How is that relevant to the applicability of a Stoic mindset?

matwood 8y ago

In some ways it's easier to exercise self-discipline when someone is super rich, but in others it is harder. For example, look at all of the rich and powerful with drug and alcohol problems. When someone has almost everything it is easy to become lazy and/or abuse substances. Is it easier for Bezos to get out of bed 20 minutes earlier and do 100 burpees than it is for you or I? IMO, it's not that different.

coldtea 8y ago
>In some ways it's easier to exercise self-discipline when someone is super rich, but in others it is harder. For example, look at all of the rich and powerful with drug and alcohol problems. When someone has almost everything it is easy to become lazy and/or abuse substances. I look at them, and also see how it's easier for them to get out of their abuse problems, with top notch rehabilitation facilities and everything set up for them. They also get top notch medical assistance while doing them, and first rate drugs. Many even have their doctors prepare the stuff. Which they can afford and do at a nice environment, not some crack house. And when they're caught by the police, they usually get a slap on the wrist and some rehab time, not hard jail like commoners. And when you stop doing drugs, you get to go back to a nice warm house, and financial independence. Not to your abusing home, or living in the streets. There are tons of junkies around where I live (not a shabby or poor neighborhood even, just has a shabby square nearby), that don't have these easy ways out. Now, imagine a rich person, getting out of drugs, while enjoying all those niceties while he was abusing them, and saying "I did it all through my self-discipline" -- and implying by that that common junkies lack the same level of self-discipline (while they might have 2x his self-discipline but face 10x the problems to overcome).

RandomInteger4 8y ago

What does it matter how easy it is for the rich to do anything? How is that relevant to the applicability of a Stoic mindset?