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Before we make this into 'conservatives being silenced', it's worth pointing out that the censorship problem also exists for leftists outlets that are left of t

Before we make this into 'conservatives being silenced', it's worth pointing out that the censorship problem also exists for leftists outlets that are left of the neoliberal centrist view of the D.C. Democratic Party.

raxxorrax 8y ago
Taking a stand against content moderation was a fundamental leftist position some years ago... That said, I absolutely agree that leftist positions do get censored. Even if I currently like to underline my dissociation with its authoritarian excesses and general dishonesty on certain subjects, the problem is a general one.
- pas 8y ago
  Unrestricted free speech was always a strange issue. Hitchens' very eloquently presented how control of speech was used to suppress a lot of groups, and he knew about the dangers of radicalization, incitement, hate speech, but considered those negatives acceptable. However not everyone thinks that it's so great. I don't know, and it's probably not something we can just settle easily. It's usually true, that a society cannot simply rely on "laws" to save it, and when the power imbalance get too extreme, then laws won't save anyone anyway. Though it seems having some kind of policy and publicly agreed way to stop serial inciters is not a bad idea. After all information censorship generally happens through claims of potential national security hazards and other gag orders, not by a too wide interpretation of hate speech laws. (But of course human creativity is pretty limitless when it comes to suppressing others.)
mike10010100 8y ago
> the censorship problem also exists for leftists outlets that are left of the neoliberal centrist view of the D.C. Democratic Party. Which ones, specifically?
oarabbus_ 8y ago
such as...
- AsyncAwait 8y ago
  Jimmy Dore, Max Blumenthal, Rania Khalek, Aaron Maté, Michael Tracey, Abby Martin, Matt Taibbi, Katie Halper, Ben Norton, Lee Camp, Ilhan Omar, Mark Ames etc. There are many, just some off the top of my head.
  - paulddraper 8y ago
    I'm only familiar with a couple of those names. Who/what de-platformed Jimmy Dore (here's his YouTube channel; [1])? Or the rest? [1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3M7l8ved_rYQ45AVzS0RGA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3M7l8ved_rYQ45AVzS0RGA
    - AsyncAwait 8y ago
      He's been smeared in CNN & Washington Post articles as a crank and conspiracy theorist who runs 'an extremist channel' who should face consequences, has videos constantly demonetized and de-ranked etc. His channel is not 'deleted', (as is the case with the majority of right-wing commentators as well btw), but it is very much 'shadowbanned'/blacklisted, (economic ruin). I for example regularly notice the recommendation algorithm skews a lot more towards the centre & right actually even when I am specifically looking for Jimmy Dore videos. People like Rania Khalek, Abby Martin... were even more explicitly interrogated by the likes of CNN, had their Facebook pages taken down etc. On Twitter, a lot of them don't even come up in the search results, effectively shadowbanned. Of course, none of them would be invited on mainstream TV because their viewpoint is not allowed in 'polite circles'. This is why I have a huge issue with the right simplistically equating D.C. Democrats with 'the left'. I suppose the division is as to what do you care about, social leftism, (identity politics), which is easy & lazy and what many on the right focus on vs economic leftism, which is what many of those I named discuss and is not really allowed on mainstream media.
      - paulddraper 8y ago
        For me, Twitter's results for "Dore" show Jimmy Dore as the #3 result [1], following two handles with many more followers. Contrast that to "Limbaugh", for which Rush Limbaugh is the (buried) #11 result, despite having 2x the followers anything else. [1] https://twitter.com/search?q=Dore&src=typed_query https://twitter.com/search?q=Dore&src=typed_query [2] https://twitter.com/search?q=limbaugh&src=typed_query https://twitter.com/search?q=limbaugh&src=typed_query

raxxorrax 8y ago

Taking a stand against content moderation was a fundamental leftist position some years ago... That said, I absolutely agree that leftist positions do get censored. Even if I currently like to underline my dissociation with its authoritarian excesses and general dishonesty on certain subjects, the problem is a general one.

pas 8y ago
Unrestricted free speech was always a strange issue. Hitchens' very eloquently presented how control of speech was used to suppress a lot of groups, and he knew about the dangers of radicalization, incitement, hate speech, but considered those negatives acceptable. However not everyone thinks that it's so great. I don't know, and it's probably not something we can just settle easily. It's usually true, that a society cannot simply rely on "laws" to save it, and when the power imbalance get too extreme, then laws won't save anyone anyway. Though it seems having some kind of policy and publicly agreed way to stop serial inciters is not a bad idea. After all information censorship generally happens through claims of potential national security hazards and other gag orders, not by a too wide interpretation of hate speech laws. (But of course human creativity is pretty limitless when it comes to suppressing others.)

mike10010100 8y ago

> the censorship problem also exists for leftists outlets that are left of the neoliberal centrist view of the D.C. Democratic Party. Which ones, specifically?

oarabbus_ 8y ago

such as...

AsyncAwait 8y ago
Jimmy Dore, Max Blumenthal, Rania Khalek, Aaron Maté, Michael Tracey, Abby Martin, Matt Taibbi, Katie Halper, Ben Norton, Lee Camp, Ilhan Omar, Mark Ames etc. There are many, just some off the top of my head.
- paulddraper 8y ago
  I'm only familiar with a couple of those names. Who/what de-platformed Jimmy Dore (here's his YouTube channel; [1])? Or the rest? [1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3M7l8ved_rYQ45AVzS0RGA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3M7l8ved_rYQ45AVzS0RGA
  - AsyncAwait 8y ago
    He's been smeared in CNN & Washington Post articles as a crank and conspiracy theorist who runs 'an extremist channel' who should face consequences, has videos constantly demonetized and de-ranked etc. His channel is not 'deleted', (as is the case with the majority of right-wing commentators as well btw), but it is very much 'shadowbanned'/blacklisted, (economic ruin). I for example regularly notice the recommendation algorithm skews a lot more towards the centre & right actually even when I am specifically looking for Jimmy Dore videos. People like Rania Khalek, Abby Martin... were even more explicitly interrogated by the likes of CNN, had their Facebook pages taken down etc. On Twitter, a lot of them don't even come up in the search results, effectively shadowbanned. Of course, none of them would be invited on mainstream TV because their viewpoint is not allowed in 'polite circles'. This is why I have a huge issue with the right simplistically equating D.C. Democrats with 'the left'. I suppose the division is as to what do you care about, social leftism, (identity politics), which is easy & lazy and what many on the right focus on vs economic leftism, which is what many of those I named discuss and is not really allowed on mainstream media.
    - paulddraper 8y ago
      For me, Twitter's results for "Dore" show Jimmy Dore as the #3 result [1], following two handles with many more followers. Contrast that to "Limbaugh", for which Rush Limbaugh is the (buried) #11 result, despite having 2x the followers anything else. [1] https://twitter.com/search?q=Dore&src=typed_query https://twitter.com/search?q=Dore&src=typed_query [2] https://twitter.com/search?q=limbaugh&src=typed_query https://twitter.com/search?q=limbaugh&src=typed_query