6 ms·

When the cows come home

51 points by mastazi 8y ago

hi41 8y ago
I hope we are not romanticizing farming. In India, over a quarter million farmers have committed suicide due to poor crops.
- mastazi 8y ago
  Farming != subsistence farming. Last time I checked, Howard G. Buffett was doing OK.
- lm28469 8y ago
  It's the blowback of romanticising city life. Just like these "van life" and "minimalist" trends
1stcity3rdcoast 8y ago
I mean, if someone wanted to move to the country to become a gentleman or family farmer, there’s simply no better place to do it than rural Italy.
- keyle 8y ago
  That's exactly my point. Rural Italy was really poor in the past, I imagine it's not too expensive still, and it's drop dead gorgeous in some parts.
owyn 8y ago
Sure... I would love to play Stardew Valley in "real life" too but it's hard work and economically it's not that lucrative... Most of them got their land for free because it was in the family and when you look at their individual stories: "Her biggest challenge is staying in the black; she makes just enough to live" "The house that Gherpelli and Piana live in, and the land on which their greenhouse sits, have been leveraged as collateral for their bank loan, along with the homes of a few family members." "He has taken up bee-keeping, with 200 hives distributed in ten apiaries around a neighbouring valley, selling his honey under the label Dietro al Monte. He needs twice as many hives to make a living." "So far they have been able to support themselves and run their enterprise by pooling their own savings, selling their honey and drastically reducing living costs, but it is hard graft. Other than occasional forays to Turin to see friends, they spend their time working their farm."
- johnchristopher 8y ago
  > Sure... I would love to play Stardew Valley in "real life" too but it's hard work and economically it's not that lucrative... The thing is... some people have to “play Stardew Valley in "real life"” so you can have things to eat. How come their job isn't more stable and they don't have the time to play Silicon Valley App of the day Sim 2019 ?
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Small time farmers are not competitive with large scale industrial farming. In general society regards this as a good thing, since industrial farming allows us to pursue jobs other than farming. I wouldn't want to live in a world where we still require 90% of the population to be farmers.
    - johnchristopher 8y ago
      But large scale industrial farmers don't have time to play Silicon Valley App of the day Sim 2019 either. It's been debated to death and I am not sure the benefits of large scale farming outweigh smaller units. Now you say they "play" Stardew valley... 60-80 hours a week in the field and having to take odd jobs to pay the farm's bill doesn't sound like "playing" to me. Actually, that's really aggressive to mock people like that.
      - owyn 8y ago
        Good point, and it wasn't my intent to mock the farmers, it was aimed at the tone of the article which is like "this is a totally awesome lifestyle thing that you could totally do" while simultaneously pointing out that most of these people inherited their farmland and are still working really hard and in most cases barely scraping by.
- lm28469 8y ago
  There is also a big difference between playing stardew valley 2 hours a day sitting in a comfy sofa VS working 8+ hours a day in a farm no matter the weather. You can buy a farm in a remote area and be self sustainable in food / energy for not much, but yeah you won't make bay area money like that. If you make "just enough to live" but live the life you want, more power to you. No one if forced to join the city rat race.
jimbokun 8y ago
Maybe the trick is to extend agriturismo, and offer not just the opportunity to stay on the farm grounds, but also pay for the authentic experience of traditional artisanal farm work!
- reidjs 8y ago
  Perhaps they’d be able to make living wages by putting their barn on Airbnb. It will be just like that episode of the office.
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    A friend worked for a horse owner who had a rather lovely guest apartment on the upper story of her barn. He stayed over there sometimes when he was working with the horses.
- icebraining 8y ago
  That's already common in Portugal and Spain[1], I'm guessing Italy has its fair share as well. [1] Here are some tourists paying to carry grapes to the house: https://ep01.epimg.net/economia/imagenes/2018/09/09/actualidad/1536508707_699283_1536509628_sumario_normal_recorte1.jpg https://ep01.epimg.net/economia/imagenes/2018/09/09/actualid...
marktangotango 8y ago
I was intrigued so I did some research, apparently the “laser guided milker” is one of these [1]. The operation must have been a significant capital expenditure to start. Surely there’s down time or equipment failure that requires traditional milking equipment to be available. Cows must be milked twice a day or bacterial infections can occur. Milking a large herd by hand is quite labor intensive. Note how polite the cows in the video are, to not piss and shit in the stall and all over the equipment, nor kick, breaking the equipment or arms. I grew up milking and shoveling manure on a small family dairy farm. It wasn’t a bad life, just all consuming, morning and night, 365 days a year. I suppose my father had a similar goal going back to the land. That’s how he’d been raised. Looking back I’m sure he was more than little disappointed how quickly my siblings and I left, and how little interest any of us expressed in taking it on. He eventually sold the herd and most of the land. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tdD5LncaJ-8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tdD5LncaJ-8
- phillc73 8y ago
  That's a pretty interesting machine, but as you point out far too clean! I also noticed that the cow's teats weren't sprayed or dipped with iodine solution post-milking to prevent mastitis. Each cow should also be inspected pre-milking for mastitis, cut or damaged teats etc, and the milk diverted away from the main vat. I think there would still be requirement for human input and monitoring even with this machine. The other thing is this machine seemed quite slow to attach to the teats. Generally, you'd want to get the cows back on the pasture quickly. This system would take half a day to milk any decent sized herd.
jessaustin 8y ago
150 cows (plus the ~75 bull calves she's fattening every year) on 12 acres? That's not a farm, that's a feedlot. I don't see anything about her manure arrangements? Somehow I suspect a different article would have been written had this farm been located in USA.

51 points by mastazi 8y ago

hi41 8y ago

I hope we are not romanticizing farming. In India, over a quarter million farmers have committed suicide due to poor crops.

mastazi 8y ago
Farming != subsistence farming. Last time I checked, Howard G. Buffett was doing OK.
lm28469 8y ago
It's the blowback of romanticising city life. Just like these "van life" and "minimalist" trends

1stcity3rdcoast 8y ago

I mean, if someone wanted to move to the country to become a gentleman or family farmer, there’s simply no better place to do it than rural Italy.

keyle 8y ago
That's exactly my point. Rural Italy was really poor in the past, I imagine it's not too expensive still, and it's drop dead gorgeous in some parts.

owyn 8y ago

Sure... I would love to play Stardew Valley in "real life" too but it's hard work and economically it's not that lucrative... Most of them got their land for free because it was in the family and when you look at their individual stories: "Her biggest challenge is staying in the black; she makes just enough to live" "The house that Gherpelli and Piana live in, and the land on which their greenhouse sits, have been leveraged as collateral for their bank loan, along with the homes of a few family members." "He has taken up bee-keeping, with 200 hives distributed in ten apiaries around a neighbouring valley, selling his honey under the label Dietro al Monte. He needs twice as many hives to make a living." "So far they have been able to support themselves and run their enterprise by pooling their own savings, selling their honey and drastically reducing living costs, but it is hard graft. Other than occasional forays to Turin to see friends, they spend their time working their farm."

johnchristopher 8y ago
> Sure... I would love to play Stardew Valley in "real life" too but it's hard work and economically it's not that lucrative... The thing is... some people have to “play Stardew Valley in "real life"” so you can have things to eat. How come their job isn't more stable and they don't have the time to play Silicon Valley App of the day Sim 2019 ?
- adrianN 8y ago
  Small time farmers are not competitive with large scale industrial farming. In general society regards this as a good thing, since industrial farming allows us to pursue jobs other than farming. I wouldn't want to live in a world where we still require 90% of the population to be farmers.
  - johnchristopher 8y ago
    But large scale industrial farmers don't have time to play Silicon Valley App of the day Sim 2019 either. It's been debated to death and I am not sure the benefits of large scale farming outweigh smaller units. Now you say they "play" Stardew valley... 60-80 hours a week in the field and having to take odd jobs to pay the farm's bill doesn't sound like "playing" to me. Actually, that's really aggressive to mock people like that.
    - owyn 8y ago
      Good point, and it wasn't my intent to mock the farmers, it was aimed at the tone of the article which is like "this is a totally awesome lifestyle thing that you could totally do" while simultaneously pointing out that most of these people inherited their farmland and are still working really hard and in most cases barely scraping by.
lm28469 8y ago
There is also a big difference between playing stardew valley 2 hours a day sitting in a comfy sofa VS working 8+ hours a day in a farm no matter the weather. You can buy a farm in a remote area and be self sustainable in food / energy for not much, but yeah you won't make bay area money like that. If you make "just enough to live" but live the life you want, more power to you. No one if forced to join the city rat race.

jimbokun 8y ago

Maybe the trick is to extend agriturismo, and offer not just the opportunity to stay on the farm grounds, but also pay for the authentic experience of traditional artisanal farm work!

reidjs 8y ago
Perhaps they’d be able to make living wages by putting their barn on Airbnb. It will be just like that episode of the office.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  A friend worked for a horse owner who had a rather lovely guest apartment on the upper story of her barn. He stayed over there sometimes when he was working with the horses.
icebraining 8y ago
That's already common in Portugal and Spain[1], I'm guessing Italy has its fair share as well. [1] Here are some tourists paying to carry grapes to the house: https://ep01.epimg.net/economia/imagenes/2018/09/09/actualidad/1536508707_699283_1536509628_sumario_normal_recorte1.jpg https://ep01.epimg.net/economia/imagenes/2018/09/09/actualid...

marktangotango 8y ago

I was intrigued so I did some research, apparently the “laser guided milker” is one of these [1]. The operation must have been a significant capital expenditure to start. Surely there’s down time or equipment failure that requires traditional milking equipment to be available. Cows must be milked twice a day or bacterial infections can occur. Milking a large herd by hand is quite labor intensive. Note how polite the cows in the video are, to not piss and shit in the stall and all over the equipment, nor kick, breaking the equipment or arms. I grew up milking and shoveling manure on a small family dairy farm. It wasn’t a bad life, just all consuming, morning and night, 365 days a year. I suppose my father had a similar goal going back to the land. That’s how he’d been raised. Looking back I’m sure he was more than little disappointed how quickly my siblings and I left, and how little interest any of us expressed in taking it on. He eventually sold the herd and most of the land. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tdD5LncaJ-8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tdD5LncaJ-8

phillc73 8y ago
That's a pretty interesting machine, but as you point out far too clean! I also noticed that the cow's teats weren't sprayed or dipped with iodine solution post-milking to prevent mastitis. Each cow should also be inspected pre-milking for mastitis, cut or damaged teats etc, and the milk diverted away from the main vat. I think there would still be requirement for human input and monitoring even with this machine. The other thing is this machine seemed quite slow to attach to the teats. Generally, you'd want to get the cows back on the pasture quickly. This system would take half a day to milk any decent sized herd.

jessaustin 8y ago

150 cows (plus the ~75 bull calves she's fattening every year) on 12 acres? That's not a farm, that's a feedlot. I don't see anything about her manure arrangements? Somehow I suspect a different article would have been written had this farm been located in USA.