5 ms·

can't wait for satellite to some day be robust and cheap enough to utterly destroy the notion of municipal internet. probably not in my lifetime, but hey, my 4g

can't wait for satellite to some day be robust and cheap enough to utterly destroy the notion of municipal internet. probably not in my lifetime, but hey, my 4g is cheap enough for my current uses :)

aarongray 8y ago
haha yeah me too. It might actually happen while we are still around. https://www.fastcompany.com/90268592/elon-musks-spacex-just-got-fcc-approval-to-launch-7518-satellites https://www.fastcompany.com/90268592/elon-musks-spacex-just-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=AdKNCBrkZQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=AdKNCBrkZQ4
massivecali 8y ago
Until satellites solve the weather transmission interference problems, that's a long way off.
- Retric 8y ago
  GPS for example works just fine in the rain. Geostationary orbits have much larger issues with weather than the closer orbits of next gen satilite Internet.
  - massivecali 8y ago
    You wouldn't notice when your GPS goes out off and on while in inclement weather. It's a service that can degrade gracefully. Some systems revert to other sensors when you lose GPS signal (tunnels, underground, etc). However, you would certainly notice when your packets drop and your video/audio streaming cuts out.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Bad weather alone does not stop GPS. Other issues can, but in cases of unobstructed views of the sky and solid equipment it’s not an issue. Most streaming services can also degrade gracefully. Granted, we don’t have actual hardware to examine for these internet services, but many satellite uplinks already work fine in bad weather with at worst some loss of bandwidth.
      - massivecali 8y ago
        Tell that to my DirecTV satellite tv.
        Retric 8y ago
        Direct TV is using a geostationary orbit which as I said has many issues. That’s made worse by using a tiny dish, but even then it’s still much better the closer to the equator you are. The difference between Mane and key west is huge.
b1r6 8y ago
I always wonder about the latency with satellite internet. A friend tried HughesNet one time. I tried to tell him, "I hope you don't care about online gaming..." Sure enough, the link had good bandwidth, but horrid latency. A TCP connection would take >2 seconds to establish.
duskwuff 8y ago
Not going to happen. Satellite ISPs are crippled by a couple of largely insurmountable technical limitations: 1. Latency. 600-700 ms RTT is typical on satellite, and it's bounded by the speed of light. This makes a lot of real-time services, like voice chat and video games, essentially unusable. 2. Bandwidth. The satellites you're communicating with have a limited capacity, and provisioning more capacity is nontrivial. As a result, most satellite services have very low data caps, typically 10 - 100 GB/month. 3. Physical concerns. Satellite connectivity requires an antenna with a clear view of the equatorial sky (e.g. south for northern hemisphere). This is often unavailable in cities, apartments, or hilly areas -- if there's a tall building or a mountain between you and the satellite, you can't use their service.
- jrockway 8y ago
  The next generation of satellite Internet is not going to be based on satellites in geostationary orbit. They are close to the surface of the Earth and form a mesh that can make paths that are shorter than the great circle distance. This should fix all three of your problems, except maybe total bandwidth.
  - ekimekim 8y ago
    > form a mesh that can make paths that are shorter than the great circle distance I think that's a slight mis-wording - you can't beat the great circle distance over the surface unless you go underground, but you can definitely beat a packet-switched, zig-zagging network running through the ground with a more or less direct point-to-point mesh running 100km above it.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    If I understand correctly, that won't fix the latency problem. It will make it less severe, though.
    - monocasa 8y ago
      It should give you latency that you'd expect from a wired connection.

can't wait for satellite to some day be robust and cheap enough to utterly destroy the notion of municipal internet. probably not in my lifetime, but hey, my 4g is cheap enough for my current uses :)

aarongray 8y ago

haha yeah me too. It might actually happen while we are still around. https://www.fastcompany.com/90268592/elon-musks-spacex-just-got-fcc-approval-to-launch-7518-satellites https://www.fastcompany.com/90268592/elon-musks-spacex-just-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=AdKNCBrkZQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=AdKNCBrkZQ4

massivecali 8y ago

Until satellites solve the weather transmission interference problems, that's a long way off.

Retric 8y ago
GPS for example works just fine in the rain. Geostationary orbits have much larger issues with weather than the closer orbits of next gen satilite Internet.
- massivecali 8y ago
  You wouldn't notice when your GPS goes out off and on while in inclement weather. It's a service that can degrade gracefully. Some systems revert to other sensors when you lose GPS signal (tunnels, underground, etc). However, you would certainly notice when your packets drop and your video/audio streaming cuts out.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Bad weather alone does not stop GPS. Other issues can, but in cases of unobstructed views of the sky and solid equipment it’s not an issue. Most streaming services can also degrade gracefully. Granted, we don’t have actual hardware to examine for these internet services, but many satellite uplinks already work fine in bad weather with at worst some loss of bandwidth.
    - massivecali 8y ago
      Tell that to my DirecTV satellite tv.
      - Retric 8y ago
        Direct TV is using a geostationary orbit which as I said has many issues. That’s made worse by using a tiny dish, but even then it’s still much better the closer to the equator you are. The difference between Mane and key west is huge.

b1r6 8y ago

I always wonder about the latency with satellite internet. A friend tried HughesNet one time. I tried to tell him, "I hope you don't care about online gaming..." Sure enough, the link had good bandwidth, but horrid latency. A TCP connection would take >2 seconds to establish.

duskwuff 8y ago

Not going to happen. Satellite ISPs are crippled by a couple of largely insurmountable technical limitations: 1. Latency. 600-700 ms RTT is typical on satellite, and it's bounded by the speed of light. This makes a lot of real-time services, like voice chat and video games, essentially unusable. 2. Bandwidth. The satellites you're communicating with have a limited capacity, and provisioning more capacity is nontrivial. As a result, most satellite services have very low data caps, typically 10 - 100 GB/month. 3. Physical concerns. Satellite connectivity requires an antenna with a clear view of the equatorial sky (e.g. south for northern hemisphere). This is often unavailable in cities, apartments, or hilly areas -- if there's a tall building or a mountain between you and the satellite, you can't use their service.

jrockway 8y ago
The next generation of satellite Internet is not going to be based on satellites in geostationary orbit. They are close to the surface of the Earth and form a mesh that can make paths that are shorter than the great circle distance. This should fix all three of your problems, except maybe total bandwidth.
- ekimekim 8y ago
  > form a mesh that can make paths that are shorter than the great circle distance I think that's a slight mis-wording - you can't beat the great circle distance over the surface unless you go underground, but you can definitely beat a packet-switched, zig-zagging network running through the ground with a more or less direct point-to-point mesh running 100km above it.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  If I understand correctly, that won't fix the latency problem. It will make it less severe, though.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    It should give you latency that you'd expect from a wired connection.