4 ms·

The comp packages at big tech companies are becoming insane. In Seattle it's not unreasonable for a senior software engineer with some good connections to be m

The comp packages at big tech companies are becoming insane. In Seattle it's not unreasonable for a senior software engineer with some good connections to be making 200-250k. With that comes life insurance, health insurance for your whole family, disability insurance, etc. That's more in cash AND benefits than a doctor.

coldtea 8y ago
>That's more in cash AND benefits than a doctor. Does the company make wildly more money than a doctor's practice?
- gaogao 8y ago
  For my dad, a psychiatrist, running a private practice netted him around $400,000 yearly.
  - ataturk 8y ago
    Net? Or Gross?
  - jerf 8y ago
    Psychiatry scales "poorly", being "merely" linear in input. I scare quote those words because they're only poor by software standards. That's why software companies make the big bucks; they're just about the only businesses around that can reliably scale superlinearly in inputs. People who can help you scale superlinearly in inputs are pretty darned valuable.
  - lordnacho 8y ago
    Don't doctors in the US have massive malpractice insurance to pay? I heard it was 6 figures. Got family who are docs there.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Don't doctors in the US have massive malpractice insurance to pay? Depends a lot on specialty, but apparently within some specialties there's almost a 10× range of annual costs. > I heard it was 6 figures. For the highest cost specialty (OB/GYN), near or into the six figures range is right by the first source I find, and surgery specialities seem potentially to be in that range. Others much lower, down as low as four figures. https://www.capson.com/medical-malpractice-insurance-by-specialty/ https://www.capson.com/medical-malpractice-insurance-by-spec...
perfmode 8y ago
The companies themselves print money. The owners of these companies are the wealthiest people in the world.
pbrb 8y ago
I keep hearing they can get to close to double that, too.
seem_2211 8y ago
I think the question needs to be asked: will this last for the next 25-30 years? I really hope so, but unlike being a doctor, it's a lot more uncertain than we'd like it to be.
- peteradio 8y ago
  Git while the gittins good.
- hobofan 8y ago
  Unless there are extreme breakthroughs in making software engineering approachable for currently not quite as qualified people, I don't see it changing. Breaking the social stigma of "nah that is extremely complicated, I can't learn that" would also be a big one. BIG SIMPLIFICATIONS AHEAD There are a lot of new software engineers popping up all the time, but very few ever reach a "senior" change, and a lot of them end up producing unmaintainable systems at companies, that sooner or later crumble. All at the same time, demand for good software engineers is growing and growing. There are also an interesting effect I'm starting to see more often (in Berlin), that due to combination of high salaries and moderate living costs, which make saving up money possible, qualified engineers are (partially) leaving the workforce quite early, either by dropping to part-time or retiring early. This then further lowers the available supply, making salaries even higher, and it even easier to save up money. More of a hunch than a big observable effect right now, but I'm very interested in seeing how that plays out over the coming years.
  - mgkimsal 8y ago
    > There are a lot of new software engineers popping up all the time, but very few ever reach a "senior" change And yet many of them still get the 'senior' title and role, and still end up producing unmaintainable systems. I've had to clean up after quite a few.
    - hobofan 8y ago
      Yep. I think this might even be a symptom of the shortage of engineers. A "senior" title might often be the only way for the CTO (or equivalent) to justify what is perceived by the rest of the company as high salaries.
swiftcoder 8y ago
A senior engineer at a BigCo in Seattle with good connections should be making 300-500k (mix of cash and RSUs).
jki275 8y ago
Doctors make significantly more than that. Double that at minimum for a successful doctor.
- refurb 8y ago
  Physician income varies widely based on specialty. Family medicine can be paying in the $200K's while a skilled surgeon with their own practice can be $1M+.
  - jki275 8y ago
    Certainly a fair point.
mgkimsal 8y ago
Thanks for some reasonable(?) numbers. I too often see people here and other places positing that mid-level developers easily net $500k a few years out of college. I've no doubt that some at FAANG companies make that, but those seem very much at the high end. "Total comp" vs "total cost" are different numbers as well - stock, 401k, etc all can add to the final numbers too, but $200-$250k seems a lot more in line with the top end numbers I'm familiar with.
- pault 8y ago
  I've been told I'm pretty close to top of market in Austin at ~225
  - eclipxe 8y ago
    That's a great negotiation strategy for a company that doesn't want to pay more. That isn't top of market in Austin.
    - pault 8y ago
      Okay, but to be fair I said "close to" and the person that told me that was not offering me a job.
      - mgkimsal 8y ago
        it's also going to depend on how you define "market". At some point at high salaries you're looking at pretty narrow/specialized skills, and 'the market' may only be a handful of qualified people in a given geography.
eldavido 8y ago
> That's more in cash AND benefits than a doctor. No it isn't. You're comparing top-of-the-line tech comp to Joe Random Doctor. Surgeons make thousands of dollars per surgery. Busy surgeons do 5+ each day. That's 50-75K/week in a good week. The thing you have to realize is you don't get to senior by coasting. You have to have a great education and then work at least 5-10 years. Doctor pay is higher because they have to go to medical school. So really I think the more relevant comparison is doctor vs. mid-career dev. It's still way lower, though.

coldtea 8y ago

>That's more in cash AND benefits than a doctor. Does the company make wildly more money than a doctor's practice?

gaogao 8y ago
For my dad, a psychiatrist, running a private practice netted him around $400,000 yearly.
- ataturk 8y ago
  Net? Or Gross?
- jerf 8y ago
  Psychiatry scales "poorly", being "merely" linear in input. I scare quote those words because they're only poor by software standards. That's why software companies make the big bucks; they're just about the only businesses around that can reliably scale superlinearly in inputs. People who can help you scale superlinearly in inputs are pretty darned valuable.
- lordnacho 8y ago
  Don't doctors in the US have massive malpractice insurance to pay? I heard it was 6 figures. Got family who are docs there.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Don't doctors in the US have massive malpractice insurance to pay? Depends a lot on specialty, but apparently within some specialties there's almost a 10× range of annual costs. > I heard it was 6 figures. For the highest cost specialty (OB/GYN), near or into the six figures range is right by the first source I find, and surgery specialities seem potentially to be in that range. Others much lower, down as low as four figures. https://www.capson.com/medical-malpractice-insurance-by-specialty/ https://www.capson.com/medical-malpractice-insurance-by-spec...

perfmode 8y ago

The companies themselves print money. The owners of these companies are the wealthiest people in the world.

pbrb 8y ago

I keep hearing they can get to close to double that, too.

seem_2211 8y ago

I think the question needs to be asked: will this last for the next 25-30 years? I really hope so, but unlike being a doctor, it's a lot more uncertain than we'd like it to be.

peteradio 8y ago
Git while the gittins good.
hobofan 8y ago
Unless there are extreme breakthroughs in making software engineering approachable for currently not quite as qualified people, I don't see it changing. Breaking the social stigma of "nah that is extremely complicated, I can't learn that" would also be a big one. BIG SIMPLIFICATIONS AHEAD There are a lot of new software engineers popping up all the time, but very few ever reach a "senior" change, and a lot of them end up producing unmaintainable systems at companies, that sooner or later crumble. All at the same time, demand for good software engineers is growing and growing. There are also an interesting effect I'm starting to see more often (in Berlin), that due to combination of high salaries and moderate living costs, which make saving up money possible, qualified engineers are (partially) leaving the workforce quite early, either by dropping to part-time or retiring early. This then further lowers the available supply, making salaries even higher, and it even easier to save up money. More of a hunch than a big observable effect right now, but I'm very interested in seeing how that plays out over the coming years.
- mgkimsal 8y ago
  > There are a lot of new software engineers popping up all the time, but very few ever reach a "senior" change And yet many of them still get the 'senior' title and role, and still end up producing unmaintainable systems. I've had to clean up after quite a few.
  - hobofan 8y ago
    Yep. I think this might even be a symptom of the shortage of engineers. A "senior" title might often be the only way for the CTO (or equivalent) to justify what is perceived by the rest of the company as high salaries.

swiftcoder 8y ago

A senior engineer at a BigCo in Seattle with good connections should be making 300-500k (mix of cash and RSUs).

jki275 8y ago

Doctors make significantly more than that. Double that at minimum for a successful doctor.

refurb 8y ago
Physician income varies widely based on specialty. Family medicine can be paying in the $200K's while a skilled surgeon with their own practice can be $1M+.
- jki275 8y ago
  Certainly a fair point.

mgkimsal 8y ago

Thanks for some reasonable(?) numbers. I too often see people here and other places positing that mid-level developers easily net $500k a few years out of college. I've no doubt that some at FAANG companies make that, but those seem very much at the high end. "Total comp" vs "total cost" are different numbers as well - stock, 401k, etc all can add to the final numbers too, but $200-$250k seems a lot more in line with the top end numbers I'm familiar with.

pault 8y ago
I've been told I'm pretty close to top of market in Austin at ~225
- eclipxe 8y ago
  That's a great negotiation strategy for a company that doesn't want to pay more. That isn't top of market in Austin.
  - pault 8y ago
    Okay, but to be fair I said "close to" and the person that told me that was not offering me a job.
    - mgkimsal 8y ago
      it's also going to depend on how you define "market". At some point at high salaries you're looking at pretty narrow/specialized skills, and 'the market' may only be a handful of qualified people in a given geography.

eldavido 8y ago

> That's more in cash AND benefits than a doctor. No it isn't. You're comparing top-of-the-line tech comp to Joe Random Doctor. Surgeons make thousands of dollars per surgery. Busy surgeons do 5+ each day. That's 50-75K/week in a good week. The thing you have to realize is you don't get to senior by coasting. You have to have a great education and then work at least 5-10 years. Doctor pay is higher because they have to go to medical school. So really I think the more relevant comparison is doctor vs. mid-career dev. It's still way lower, though.