6 ms·

emails are packages with different representations in it. You have the classic "plantext" version and "html" version in emails today. What this is doing is addi

emails are packages with different representations in it. You have the classic "plantext" version and "html" version in emails today. What this is doing is adding another one to it. Mutt, for instance, discards "html" and renders just the "plaintext" version. AMP emails would just be another part of the same email. Nothing would stop working.

PaulHoule 8y ago
Yeah, but messing with email is scary. Email is still an open platform and if Google gets complete control of it then there is no open platform that people actually use.
- dymk 8y ago
  Google isn't the only one implementing AMP for email, nor are they the sole controller of what AMP implementations look like. It's an open spec. Yahoo, Outlook, and Mail.ru support it.
  - PaulHoule 8y ago
    Unfortunately "HTML + JS" based is no longer open. Commercially competitive web browsers are absent on open (not Apple) platforms which leaves the Chrome + Firefox duopoly. Somehow Google will help Firefox stumble along since it will keep them out of trouble with the antitrust courts.
- cramforce 8y ago
  AMP including AMP for email is governed by a multi-company Technical Steering Committee as well as Advisory Committee since last year. https://blog.amp.dev/2019/03/06/encouraging-more-voices-in-amp/ https://blog.amp.dev/2019/03/06/encouraging-more-voices-in-a... AMP for email has support by Outlook, Yahoo, and Mail.ru, so it very much isn't under Google's control.
  - dashundchen 8y ago
    Looking at their technical steering committee, 3 out of 7 members are from Google, with only one from a company of what I would consider equivalent pull (Microsoft). https://github.com/ampproject/meta-tsc https://github.com/ampproject/meta-tsc I would hardly consider Yahoo to be a leader in anything at this point, not sure about mail.ru. From an outsider's perspective AMP looks Google controlled. It looks like from your comment history you are part of Google's AMP team. It would be nice to disclose that.
    - cramforce 8y ago
      Yahoo is a BIG email client. The TSC requires majority consensus. Google does not have a majority.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        Google’s three plus any one other member does, though.
        cramforce 8y ago
        Yes, but you know, that isn't Google controlling it and these are all member from major internet companies that won't take part in such a "conspiracy".
        AaronFriel 8y ago
        Why does Google have three members then?
        cramforce 8y ago
        Because we do the majority of the work. The governance body size will, however, expand with further non-Google members. So, the hypothetical "you just have to convince only one" is becoming less of an issue over time.
- fstanis 8y ago
  > Email is still an open platform Open in what sense? For example, there's no open standard (to the best of my knowledge) for the HTML used in emails right now and different email clients render HTML in emails differently. On the other hand, the protocol itself is standardized, but AMP is not working on protocol level.
gmuslera 8y ago
... until something that you are required to know (that was sent in the AMP part of the email) is not in the plaintext version of the email. Happened many times with HTML, and now there is another layer where that will happen. Is people or the communication what stops working, and then the involved system, not a piece of software by itself.
JohnFen 8y ago
> You have the classic "plantext" version and "html" version in emails today. Not often enough. These days, people who are rude enough to send HTML emails are also rude enough not to include a plain-text version of the email. I don't expect AMP to be any different.
megous 8y ago
Many html mail senders just use plaintext like this: "Please view the HTML version of the e-mail" Which is annoying, because I have a preference set for plain text if it is included. If a sender doesn't have a plaintext alternative, they should not include any of this garbage plaintext, that just confuses the preference logic in MUA. Anyway, it shows that we may start seeing: <p>You need AMP supporting MUA.</p> as a html "alternative".
rrix2 8y ago
"text email is not supported, please click https://amp.blabla.com/$TRACKING_URL https://amp.blabla.com/$TRACKING_URL to read this message" is already a thing I see in text/plain from commercial email all the time.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  Yep. And there's no way I'm clicking on that link. When I get one of these and think it's an email I actually need, I just tell the sender that their email is unreadable to me and they should resend it as text.
- progval 8y ago
  Or worse: an empty plaintext
  - i6tjvo 8y ago
    That's what I got the other day when registering to Bethesda.net: the plaintext part of the email simply said "none".
felixfbecker 8y ago
The only representation I would be happy to see added/adopted is markdown.

PaulHoule 8y ago

Yeah, but messing with email is scary. Email is still an open platform and if Google gets complete control of it then there is no open platform that people actually use.

dymk 8y ago
Google isn't the only one implementing AMP for email, nor are they the sole controller of what AMP implementations look like. It's an open spec. Yahoo, Outlook, and Mail.ru support it.
- PaulHoule 8y ago
  Unfortunately "HTML + JS" based is no longer open. Commercially competitive web browsers are absent on open (not Apple) platforms which leaves the Chrome + Firefox duopoly. Somehow Google will help Firefox stumble along since it will keep them out of trouble with the antitrust courts.
cramforce 8y ago
AMP including AMP for email is governed by a multi-company Technical Steering Committee as well as Advisory Committee since last year. https://blog.amp.dev/2019/03/06/encouraging-more-voices-in-amp/ https://blog.amp.dev/2019/03/06/encouraging-more-voices-in-a... AMP for email has support by Outlook, Yahoo, and Mail.ru, so it very much isn't under Google's control.
- dashundchen 8y ago
  Looking at their technical steering committee, 3 out of 7 members are from Google, with only one from a company of what I would consider equivalent pull (Microsoft). https://github.com/ampproject/meta-tsc https://github.com/ampproject/meta-tsc I would hardly consider Yahoo to be a leader in anything at this point, not sure about mail.ru. From an outsider's perspective AMP looks Google controlled. It looks like from your comment history you are part of Google's AMP team. It would be nice to disclose that.
  - cramforce 8y ago
    Yahoo is a BIG email client. The TSC requires majority consensus. Google does not have a majority.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      Google’s three plus any one other member does, though.
      - cramforce 8y ago
        Yes, but you know, that isn't Google controlling it and these are all member from major internet companies that won't take part in such a "conspiracy".
        AaronFriel 8y ago
        Why does Google have three members then?
        cramforce 8y ago
        Because we do the majority of the work. The governance body size will, however, expand with further non-Google members. So, the hypothetical "you just have to convince only one" is becoming less of an issue over time.
fstanis 8y ago
> Email is still an open platform Open in what sense? For example, there's no open standard (to the best of my knowledge) for the HTML used in emails right now and different email clients render HTML in emails differently. On the other hand, the protocol itself is standardized, but AMP is not working on protocol level.

gmuslera 8y ago

... until something that you are required to know (that was sent in the AMP part of the email) is not in the plaintext version of the email. Happened many times with HTML, and now there is another layer where that will happen. Is people or the communication what stops working, and then the involved system, not a piece of software by itself.

JohnFen 8y ago

> You have the classic "plantext" version and "html" version in emails today. Not often enough. These days, people who are rude enough to send HTML emails are also rude enough not to include a plain-text version of the email. I don't expect AMP to be any different.

megous 8y ago

Many html mail senders just use plaintext like this: "Please view the HTML version of the e-mail" Which is annoying, because I have a preference set for plain text if it is included. If a sender doesn't have a plaintext alternative, they should not include any of this garbage plaintext, that just confuses the preference logic in MUA. Anyway, it shows that we may start seeing: <p>You need AMP supporting MUA.</p> as a html "alternative".

rrix2 8y ago

"text email is not supported, please click https://amp.blabla.com/$TRACKING_URL https://amp.blabla.com/$TRACKING_URL to read this message" is already a thing I see in text/plain from commercial email all the time.

JohnFen 8y ago
Yep. And there's no way I'm clicking on that link. When I get one of these and think it's an email I actually need, I just tell the sender that their email is unreadable to me and they should resend it as text.
progval 8y ago
Or worse: an empty plaintext
- i6tjvo 8y ago
  That's what I got the other day when registering to Bethesda.net: the plaintext part of the email simply said "none".

felixfbecker 8y ago

The only representation I would be happy to see added/adopted is markdown.