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The criticism was there because they over promised that it would launch with a great deal of content that wasn't delivered. Why should we encourage this type of

The criticism was there because they over promised that it would launch with a great deal of content that wasn't delivered. Why should we encourage this type of behavior since it is becoming rampant in the industry to release unfinished games at all?

mav3rick 8y ago
Maybe they made genuine mistakes.
- hombre_fatal 8y ago
  IIRC they got in trouble for not being forthcoming about basic questions about the game close to launch. However, we as humanity really need to give people the opportunity to make things right. And Hello Games surely did that by implementing just about everything they said they would including multiplayer over the next few years.
  - mav3rick 8y ago
    Agreed.
wilg 8y ago
Unpopular opinion: They didn't actually promise anything that wasn't in the game at launch or say anything that wasn't true.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago
  Maybe not literally (I think that it actually did happen more than once that they outright said something was going to be in the game and it didn’t happen), but there was a whole lot of “we implied this, some rampant speculation started, and we made no effort to quash the rumors because they help drive the hype machine”. I think it was less on purpose and more symptomatic of having a breathless dreamer as a lead who thinks the world is possible. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but might be a good idea to keep that guy’s interactions with the press pretty rehearsed so you don’t accidentally put your foot in your mouth. The guy who did the Fable franchise (Peter Molyneux) was also notoriously bad about this.
  - shkkmo 8y ago
    Except Peter's most recent failure, Godus, never got finished and had work stopped on it pretty quickly. I have much less of a problem with breathless dreamers who keep working and find ways to make their dream reality rather than moving on to something else and abandoning their supporters when they get bored. > they outright said something was going to be in the game and it didn’t happen Haven't most if not all of those NMS promises been fulfilled? As someone who played a fair amount NMS and Godus, even at launch NMS was a much better and more interesting game than Godus and it has only improved.
- taytus 8y ago
  It may be unpopular because it's just not true. They did a demo showing procedurally generated terrain and animals that (later we learned) it was NOT procedurally generated at all. So yeah, they promised stuff that they knew they wouldn't deliver.
- jasonlotito 8y ago
  The funny part is, when you ask people to back this up, they can't. I never found anyone that could point to these explicit promises. There was lots of discussion about things they'd like to add, or just talking about game development in general, but I don't remember them saying "At launch, you will get X feature" and then at launch, not having that.
  - hombre_fatal 8y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no... There are others like this, it was just the first result on Google. I think comments like yours really just short-change Hello Games for the sheer amount of progress they've made and the difficulty of the challenge they faced in doing something as hard as winning back the gaming community.
    - jasonlotito 8y ago
      Oh, I know about that, and it fails. For example, literally the first thing in the list you link: "Yeah, at the moment you can land on asteroids." That's a "promise" apparently not kept. So is this: "Maybe you take out a space station, or a fleet, or you know, something like that..." I'm not going to list everything here, but everything everyone complains about is what they were shown, what they hyped themselves, and general game development that will get changed. I never found anyone that could point to these explicit promises. There was lots of discussion about things they'd like to add, or just talking about game development in general, but I don't remember them saying "At launch, you will get X feature" and then at launch, not having that. Edit: You edited your comment after I replied. It was originally just a link with no commentary. > There are others like this, it was just the first result on Google. You would do well to not just assume it's 100% accurate. > I think comments like yours really just short-change Hello Games for the sheer amount of progress they've made and the difficulty of the challenge they faced in doing something as hard as winning back the gaming community. First, I'm not saying that they game was perfect. Only that the issue was the hype built up by the community and the inference of "promises" where there were none. The game needed work, and they did a great job in improving it. Secondly, the gaming community is fickle and uncaring. They love things they claim to hate, and hate things they claim to love. Sure, Hello Games has done a lot, and they get a lot of credit for this especially in the face of the death threats from that gaming community. Sorry, but the gaming community does not have my sympathy.
- hombre_fatal 8y ago
  I don't think this is worth dwelling on given the incredible redeeming amount of effort that Hello Games' has since put into the game over the years. But it certainly wasn't far-fetched for someone to buy the game at launch expecting some of these features: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no... I think Hello Games' misstep was that they seemed to avoid clearing the pre-launch air with precise answers.
- tsumnia 8y ago
  Jimquisition does a good video on the promises and vagueness of Hello Games prior and after release [1], so I would have to disagree. The link provides video footage of Sean Murray stating things. I'm happy with what it's become, but I also recognize what it was. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2qKAX_QaoI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2qKAX_QaoI
- 013a 8y ago
  Right... I mean, they said MULTIPLE times that it would have multiplayer. Not just an implication, but straight up saying "you could encounter other players, but the likelihood is so tiny because of the size of what we're building" and that "you can't see yourself, so the only way to know what you look like is for someone else to see you" (these are direct quotes from Sean Murray, not paraphrasing). The box even had an ESRB rating for multiplayer that was covered up with a sticker for one that didn't rate it for multiplayer, at release. They said you could grief other players. They said you could customize the look of your player. They said you could land on comets. They said the animals eat each other. They said you wouldn't have to ever gather resources if you wanted (which I guess is technically true if you're alright with also doing absolutely nothing else the game has to offer beside walking around on your starting planet). I guess you could argue that these were all some sort of vision of a "future state" and not representative of day 1, but there certainly weren't any qualifications added to the statement in any of his interviews, and there's plenty of evidence that they actually intended this stuff to be in on day 1 but simply didn't have the time. Which is fine! And I think we should praise them for committing to turning it into a game that is actually amazing. But they definitely did betray a lot of players at launch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8P2CZg3sJQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8P2CZg3sJQ
  - gilgoomesh 8y ago
    I always get annoyed when I see people repeat the quote "you could encounter other players, but the likelihood is so tiny" as though he was promising see-your-friends-multiplayer. The context of that quote was that Sean was explaining why the game had multiplayer elements like naming rights for discoveries in a shared universe but the gameplay was primary about solo exploration. It was clear that he wanted to push the benefits of "shared universe" as a form of multiplayer but as for literally seeing your friends, he was trying to say "we could code it into the game but we think it's too unlikely so we won't". It's obvious that Murray has problems directly saying no. He repeatedly said "rare", meaning "never". That was his crime.
    - Rebelgecko 8y ago
      Is "See your friends" not what he actually promised?[1] Rare certainly doesn't mean never. In another interview, he said players running into each other will be rare but will be less rare if more players buy the game, which doesn't make since if the probability of this happening is always 0. Even after the game came out he kept up the charade. When two players on the same planet couldn't see each other he made evasive comments about server load[2]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqeN6hj4dZU&t=5m41s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqeN6hj4dZU&t=5m41s [2]: https://twitter.com/nomanssky/status/763271005003538432 https://twitter.com/nomanssky/status/763271005003538432
cschmittiey 8y ago
I definitely agree on the over-promised features. I was severely disappointed on launch, as was just about everyone else I think. They should not have promised what they did, and they shouldn't have launched at the price they did. They definitely should've playtested and done more Q&A before launch. Now considering that, I do think that they seem to have made the best out of the situation they were in. Hello Games seems to be a lot more open, not promising things they can't deliver, and they've been quietly bringing the game up to where they said it would be. It really seems like they're trying to make restitution and do things the right way, this time around. That says a lot to me about where they want to be in the future and what they've learned from what they did.
modeless 8y ago
The content is being delivered though. And everyone who bought at launch gets everything at no additional cost. That's the kind of behavior I am happy to encourage.
- kingbirdy 8y ago
  But the promise was that the content would be there at launch, not eventually.
- baddox 8y ago
  I don’t think it’s great to encourage overpromising, even if this one game happened to eventually deliver on its promises.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  I mean, at launch I thought the developer was pretty damn shitty, but they’ve pretty much redeemed themselves over the time after that. I don’t respect them for the launch, but I do for what came after.
- fastball 8y ago
  Except customers were led to believe that the content / functionality would be available at launch, not years down the road. That's not a good experience.
VectorLock 8y ago
They didn't just over promise they straight up went on the Colbert Show and lied about features that didn't even exist.

mav3rick 8y ago

Maybe they made genuine mistakes.

hombre_fatal 8y ago
IIRC they got in trouble for not being forthcoming about basic questions about the game close to launch. However, we as humanity really need to give people the opportunity to make things right. And Hello Games surely did that by implementing just about everything they said they would including multiplayer over the next few years.
- mav3rick 8y ago
  Agreed.

wilg 8y ago

Unpopular opinion: They didn't actually promise anything that wasn't in the game at launch or say anything that wasn't true.

SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago
Maybe not literally (I think that it actually did happen more than once that they outright said something was going to be in the game and it didn’t happen), but there was a whole lot of “we implied this, some rampant speculation started, and we made no effort to quash the rumors because they help drive the hype machine”. I think it was less on purpose and more symptomatic of having a breathless dreamer as a lead who thinks the world is possible. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but might be a good idea to keep that guy’s interactions with the press pretty rehearsed so you don’t accidentally put your foot in your mouth. The guy who did the Fable franchise (Peter Molyneux) was also notoriously bad about this.
- shkkmo 8y ago
  Except Peter's most recent failure, Godus, never got finished and had work stopped on it pretty quickly. I have much less of a problem with breathless dreamers who keep working and find ways to make their dream reality rather than moving on to something else and abandoning their supporters when they get bored. > they outright said something was going to be in the game and it didn’t happen Haven't most if not all of those NMS promises been fulfilled? As someone who played a fair amount NMS and Godus, even at launch NMS was a much better and more interesting game than Godus and it has only improved.
taytus 8y ago
It may be unpopular because it's just not true. They did a demo showing procedurally generated terrain and animals that (later we learned) it was NOT procedurally generated at all. So yeah, they promised stuff that they knew they wouldn't deliver.
jasonlotito 8y ago
The funny part is, when you ask people to back this up, they can't. I never found anyone that could point to these explicit promises. There was lots of discussion about things they'd like to add, or just talking about game development in general, but I don't remember them saying "At launch, you will get X feature" and then at launch, not having that.
- hombre_fatal 8y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no... There are others like this, it was just the first result on Google. I think comments like yours really just short-change Hello Games for the sheer amount of progress they've made and the difficulty of the challenge they faced in doing something as hard as winning back the gaming community.
  - jasonlotito 8y ago
    Oh, I know about that, and it fails. For example, literally the first thing in the list you link: "Yeah, at the moment you can land on asteroids." That's a "promise" apparently not kept. So is this: "Maybe you take out a space station, or a fleet, or you know, something like that..." I'm not going to list everything here, but everything everyone complains about is what they were shown, what they hyped themselves, and general game development that will get changed. I never found anyone that could point to these explicit promises. There was lots of discussion about things they'd like to add, or just talking about game development in general, but I don't remember them saying "At launch, you will get X feature" and then at launch, not having that. Edit: You edited your comment after I replied. It was originally just a link with no commentary. > There are others like this, it was just the first result on Google. You would do well to not just assume it's 100% accurate. > I think comments like yours really just short-change Hello Games for the sheer amount of progress they've made and the difficulty of the challenge they faced in doing something as hard as winning back the gaming community. First, I'm not saying that they game was perfect. Only that the issue was the hype built up by the community and the inference of "promises" where there were none. The game needed work, and they did a great job in improving it. Secondly, the gaming community is fickle and uncaring. They love things they claim to hate, and hate things they claim to love. Sure, Hello Games has done a lot, and they get a lot of credit for this especially in the face of the death threats from that gaming community. Sorry, but the gaming community does not have my sympathy.
hombre_fatal 8y ago
I don't think this is worth dwelling on given the incredible redeeming amount of effort that Hello Games' has since put into the game over the years. But it certainly wasn't far-fetched for someone to buy the game at launch expecting some of these features: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no... I think Hello Games' misstep was that they seemed to avoid clearing the pre-launch air with precise answers.
tsumnia 8y ago
Jimquisition does a good video on the promises and vagueness of Hello Games prior and after release [1], so I would have to disagree. The link provides video footage of Sean Murray stating things. I'm happy with what it's become, but I also recognize what it was. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2qKAX_QaoI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2qKAX_QaoI
013a 8y ago
Right... I mean, they said MULTIPLE times that it would have multiplayer. Not just an implication, but straight up saying "you could encounter other players, but the likelihood is so tiny because of the size of what we're building" and that "you can't see yourself, so the only way to know what you look like is for someone else to see you" (these are direct quotes from Sean Murray, not paraphrasing). The box even had an ESRB rating for multiplayer that was covered up with a sticker for one that didn't rate it for multiplayer, at release. They said you could grief other players. They said you could customize the look of your player. They said you could land on comets. They said the animals eat each other. They said you wouldn't have to ever gather resources if you wanted (which I guess is technically true if you're alright with also doing absolutely nothing else the game has to offer beside walking around on your starting planet). I guess you could argue that these were all some sort of vision of a "future state" and not representative of day 1, but there certainly weren't any qualifications added to the statement in any of his interviews, and there's plenty of evidence that they actually intended this stuff to be in on day 1 but simply didn't have the time. Which is fine! And I think we should praise them for committing to turning it into a game that is actually amazing. But they definitely did betray a lot of players at launch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8P2CZg3sJQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8P2CZg3sJQ
- gilgoomesh 8y ago
  I always get annoyed when I see people repeat the quote "you could encounter other players, but the likelihood is so tiny" as though he was promising see-your-friends-multiplayer. The context of that quote was that Sean was explaining why the game had multiplayer elements like naming rights for discoveries in a shared universe but the gameplay was primary about solo exploration. It was clear that he wanted to push the benefits of "shared universe" as a form of multiplayer but as for literally seeing your friends, he was trying to say "we could code it into the game but we think it's too unlikely so we won't". It's obvious that Murray has problems directly saying no. He repeatedly said "rare", meaning "never". That was his crime.
  - Rebelgecko 8y ago
    Is "See your friends" not what he actually promised?[1] Rare certainly doesn't mean never. In another interview, he said players running into each other will be rare but will be less rare if more players buy the game, which doesn't make since if the probability of this happening is always 0. Even after the game came out he kept up the charade. When two players on the same planet couldn't see each other he made evasive comments about server load[2]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqeN6hj4dZU&t=5m41s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqeN6hj4dZU&t=5m41s [2]: https://twitter.com/nomanssky/status/763271005003538432 https://twitter.com/nomanssky/status/763271005003538432

cschmittiey 8y ago

I definitely agree on the over-promised features. I was severely disappointed on launch, as was just about everyone else I think. They should not have promised what they did, and they shouldn't have launched at the price they did. They definitely should've playtested and done more Q&A before launch. Now considering that, I do think that they seem to have made the best out of the situation they were in. Hello Games seems to be a lot more open, not promising things they can't deliver, and they've been quietly bringing the game up to where they said it would be. It really seems like they're trying to make restitution and do things the right way, this time around. That says a lot to me about where they want to be in the future and what they've learned from what they did.

modeless 8y ago

The content is being delivered though. And everyone who bought at launch gets everything at no additional cost. That's the kind of behavior I am happy to encourage.

kingbirdy 8y ago
But the promise was that the content would be there at launch, not eventually.
baddox 8y ago
I don’t think it’s great to encourage overpromising, even if this one game happened to eventually deliver on its promises.
Aeolun 8y ago
I mean, at launch I thought the developer was pretty damn shitty, but they’ve pretty much redeemed themselves over the time after that. I don’t respect them for the launch, but I do for what came after.
fastball 8y ago
Except customers were led to believe that the content / functionality would be available at launch, not years down the road. That's not a good experience.

VectorLock 8y ago

They didn't just over promise they straight up went on the Colbert Show and lied about features that didn't even exist.