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Are you sure your not just mentally filtering it out? I see "[checkbox] I agree that I am 13 years old or the legal guardian blah blah blah" pretty frequently

Are you sure your not just mentally filtering it out? I see "[checkbox] I agree that I am 13 years old or the legal guardian blah blah blah" pretty frequently on signup pages.

hombre_fatal 8y ago
That's possible, but not that I can tell. Neither Twitter.com, Reddit.com, nor Pornhub.com ask, for example. Though, TikTok is a video platform with immense popularity among children. Put those two together and you're bound to be first on this sort of COPPA chopping block, so I suppose I do see how OP's mind could be boggled after all. Maybe it's "just" a fine of $5.7 million.
- johnbatch 8y ago
  Reddit terms that you agree to when creating an account say: “Children under the age of 13 are not allowed to create an account or otherwise use the Services.” https://www.redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement https://www.redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement
  - hombre_fatal 8y ago
    Yes, but exactly: it's on some user agreement policy along with all the other rules nobody ever reads. I bet TikTok had the same thing. But look at TikTok's attempt at complying in TFA: they didn't just make a /policy edit. They started asking birthdate upon register/login but managed to botch that, so they started asking users for scans of their government-issued ID. If these are the sorts of measures that the FTC needs to see, then who actually is compliant under scrutiny? You can upload selfie image/videos directly to Reddit. Wouldn't Reddit be just as incapable of deleting all content from users that were <13yo at time of upload like TikTok was ordered to do? Don't get me wrong, I think "Are you over 13?" is about as useful as "Are you over 18?" and "Do you agree with our cookie policy?"
  - johnbatch 8y ago
    TikTok allows users under 13 with some requirement that the person signing up should have their parent review these terms. “If you are under age 18, you may only use the Services with the consent of your parent or legal guardian. Please be sure your parent or legal guardian has reviewed and discussed these Terms with you.” https://www.tiktok.com/en/terms-of-use https://www.tiktok.com/en/terms-of-use
    - londons_explore 8y ago
      That IMO was TikToks downfall... They should have simply said "No children under 13" and made a date of birth selector making it impossible to select a date younger than 13. Children would then have to ignore the terms and lie to the date of birth screen (fraud) to gain access, yet I'm sure that wouldn't stop most of them. TikToks as a company can publish age stats from the data 'proving' they have nobody under 13, and all of the above should satisfy FTC
      - ramchip 8y ago
        > Children would then have to ignore the terms and lie to the date of birth screen (fraud) to gain access Out of curiosity - is that really fraud? It doesn’t sound like it hurts the company.
        londons_explore 8y ago
        Falsifying information to trick a company into doing something illegal (collecting data on a minor) for personal gain (ability to use service) sounds like fraud to me.
        oarsinsync 8y ago
        If you're considered too young to have the right judgement to vote, drink, die for your country or be married off (excepting the US states that still allow marriage from age 12[0]), you should also be too young to be held liable for fraud. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_marriage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_marriage_in_the_United_...
  - coldtea 8y ago
    And children "under the age of 13" are supposed to be reading terms of use?
- gowld 8y ago
  (1) In determining whether a Web site or online service, or a portion thereof, is directed to children, the Commission will consider its subject matter, visual content, use of animated characters or child-oriented activities and incentives, music or other audio content, age of models, presence of child celebrities or celebrities who appeal to children, language or other characteristics of the Web site or online service, as well as whether advertising promoting or appearing on the Web site or online service is directed to children. The Commission will also consider competent and reliable empirical evidence regarding audience composition, and evidence regarding the intended audience.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    In other words, nothing substantial about whether it's actually used by children...
    - jacobush 8y ago
      In law, intent matters
    - dvdkon 8y ago
      > The Commission will also consider competent and reliable empirical evidence regarding audience composition It seems pretty clear that userbase demographics are a factor. It's the best evidence you can have.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  > Neither [...] nor Pornhub.com ask, for example. Funnily enough, I think it's fair for pornhub to assume their audience is 13 or older. Porn sites used to make you affirm that you were at least 18, though. I wonder what happened to that.
  - vthriller 8y ago
    They (pornhub) do ask people about their age, depending on the country they're visiting from. For Russians they even tied confirmation process to one of local social networks (source in Russian): https://tjournal.ru/flood/46247-kak-rabotaet-proverka-vozrasta-na-pornhub-cherez-vkontakte https://tjournal.ru/flood/46247-kak-rabotaet-proverka-vozras...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

Are you sure your not just mentally filtering it out? I see "[checkbox] I agree that I am 13 years old or the legal guardian blah blah blah" pretty frequently on signup pages.

hombre_fatal 8y ago

That's possible, but not that I can tell. Neither Twitter.com, Reddit.com, nor Pornhub.com ask, for example. Though, TikTok is a video platform with immense popularity among children. Put those two together and you're bound to be first on this sort of COPPA chopping block, so I suppose I do see how OP's mind could be boggled after all. Maybe it's "just" a fine of $5.7 million.

johnbatch 8y ago
Reddit terms that you agree to when creating an account say: “Children under the age of 13 are not allowed to create an account or otherwise use the Services.” https://www.redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement https://www.redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement
- hombre_fatal 8y ago
  Yes, but exactly: it's on some user agreement policy along with all the other rules nobody ever reads. I bet TikTok had the same thing. But look at TikTok's attempt at complying in TFA: they didn't just make a /policy edit. They started asking birthdate upon register/login but managed to botch that, so they started asking users for scans of their government-issued ID. If these are the sorts of measures that the FTC needs to see, then who actually is compliant under scrutiny? You can upload selfie image/videos directly to Reddit. Wouldn't Reddit be just as incapable of deleting all content from users that were <13yo at time of upload like TikTok was ordered to do? Don't get me wrong, I think "Are you over 13?" is about as useful as "Are you over 18?" and "Do you agree with our cookie policy?"
- johnbatch 8y ago
  TikTok allows users under 13 with some requirement that the person signing up should have their parent review these terms. “If you are under age 18, you may only use the Services with the consent of your parent or legal guardian. Please be sure your parent or legal guardian has reviewed and discussed these Terms with you.” https://www.tiktok.com/en/terms-of-use https://www.tiktok.com/en/terms-of-use
  - londons_explore 8y ago
    That IMO was TikToks downfall... They should have simply said "No children under 13" and made a date of birth selector making it impossible to select a date younger than 13. Children would then have to ignore the terms and lie to the date of birth screen (fraud) to gain access, yet I'm sure that wouldn't stop most of them. TikToks as a company can publish age stats from the data 'proving' they have nobody under 13, and all of the above should satisfy FTC
    - ramchip 8y ago
      > Children would then have to ignore the terms and lie to the date of birth screen (fraud) to gain access Out of curiosity - is that really fraud? It doesn’t sound like it hurts the company.
      - londons_explore 8y ago
        Falsifying information to trick a company into doing something illegal (collecting data on a minor) for personal gain (ability to use service) sounds like fraud to me.
        oarsinsync 8y ago
        If you're considered too young to have the right judgement to vote, drink, die for your country or be married off (excepting the US states that still allow marriage from age 12[0]), you should also be too young to be held liable for fraud. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_marriage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_marriage_in_the_United_...
- coldtea 8y ago
  And children "under the age of 13" are supposed to be reading terms of use?
gowld 8y ago
(1) In determining whether a Web site or online service, or a portion thereof, is directed to children, the Commission will consider its subject matter, visual content, use of animated characters or child-oriented activities and incentives, music or other audio content, age of models, presence of child celebrities or celebrities who appeal to children, language or other characteristics of the Web site or online service, as well as whether advertising promoting or appearing on the Web site or online service is directed to children. The Commission will also consider competent and reliable empirical evidence regarding audience composition, and evidence regarding the intended audience.
- coldtea 8y ago
  In other words, nothing substantial about whether it's actually used by children...
  - jacobush 8y ago
    In law, intent matters
  - dvdkon 8y ago
    > The Commission will also consider competent and reliable empirical evidence regarding audience composition It seems pretty clear that userbase demographics are a factor. It's the best evidence you can have.
thaumasiotes 8y ago
> Neither [...] nor Pornhub.com ask, for example. Funnily enough, I think it's fair for pornhub to assume their audience is 13 or older. Porn sites used to make you affirm that you were at least 18, though. I wonder what happened to that.
- vthriller 8y ago
  They (pornhub) do ask people about their age, depending on the country they're visiting from. For Russians they even tied confirmation process to one of local social networks (source in Russian): https://tjournal.ru/flood/46247-kak-rabotaet-proverka-vozrasta-na-pornhub-cherez-vkontakte https://tjournal.ru/flood/46247-kak-rabotaet-proverka-vozras...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]