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Linking pseudonyms from two different networks (in this case, Twitter and the phone system) together is a classic and serious privacy leak. It's far from clear
by apo 8y ago
Linking pseudonyms from two different networks (in this case, Twitter and the phone system) together is a classic and serious privacy leak.
It's far from clear exactly what information Twitter, in its longtime effort to combat spam, has already collected on its users. Throwing a phone number into the mix expands to range of activities that can be unambiguously tied to the same individual. Given that Twitter certainly knows IP addresses of its users, it's trivial to do things like link site visits directly to an individual answering the phone number.
Unfortunately, most people simply don't understand the implications of any of this. They don't understand what an entity, "authorized" or not can do with this kind of data. They are far too trusting of governments and other powerful entities to do the right thing. They have not been paying attention to the steady erosion of civil liberties around the world and can't conceive of, for example, ever ending up in prison for some lame post they made 10 years ago.
- anigbrowl 8y agoTwitter knows what IP you connect from, which might easily be through a VPN. The flip side of low-friction authentication is epidemic abuse by trolls, which arguably damages Twitter's brand. Unfortunately, most people simply don't understand the implications of any of this. Well, so you say.
- syshum 8y ago>> epidemic abuse by trolls, I am soo tried of hearing this excuse for mass censorship First of it MASSIVELY over used to the point where people call anyone that disagrees with them "a troll" or a bot. Twitter is hurting their own brand by their obvious political bias and selective enforcement of rules largely dependent on outrage mobs to "report" rule violations. Like real names policies before it, these types of "verification" scheme do little to curb actual abuse, and in many cases shuts out moderate voices Twitter is already quickly heading off a cliff where 2 political extremes are left yelling past each other (not actually communicating or discussing anything), and this policy will do nothing to change that //disclosure, I have never, and will never have a twitter account
- Pfhreak 8y agoI'm guessing we'd agree that Twitter has an overt bias. I'd suspect we'd disagree about which way it leans. Which sort of suggests to me that we're both wrong.
- syshum 8y agothe left bias of twitter is well documented and more or less admitted to by the execs. There is zero evidence they would be right biased
- Daishiman 8y agoWait so you don't actively participate in Twitter and yet you feel entitled to give a valid opinion about how the abuse works? Cause let me tell you, the number of accounts I've seen whose commentd get overrun with bots is not trivial at all.
- syshum 8y agoand you know they were bots how?
- Daishiman 8y agoThey give away themselves fairly easy: * Random meaningless names like "lucy2342", "23markbeard" * No profile picture or a very obviosly random picture * Generic descriptions that dictate obvious political alignment like "Mother. Southwest USA, Republican, MAGA!" * No original content in their timeline except for retweets of political articles from garbage content farms * Really bad English grammar for whenever the bot requires human intervention. They generally brigade tweets and have a complete lack of interests outside of this narrow activity.
- nemothekid 8y ago1. It’s very strange for someone to both claim that they never use Twitter and also claim “abuse” is an overblown excuse. Twitter is currently the model platform for large scale mob justice and harassment. 2. The “real name” policy is effective on Facebook for the type of abuse Twitter is trying to curtail. It would help if you explain why you feel the real name policy is ineffective. In any case, only Facebook (the product) actively enforces a real name policy.
- imhelpingu 8y agoAnd they've been trying to collect phone numbers for years. Any time an account is suspended, they try to require a phone number for it to log back in, for example.
- tomc1985 8y agoHasn't that battle been lost for a while now though? How many different services have linked phone numbers with email or some other handle? (Particularly for 2FA)
- est31 8y agoQuite many services require phone numbers. But services like reddit, GitHub, lobste.rs, or hacker news don't. Twitter has been in that list itself, but now is outside.
- _jal 8y agoDepends on how you think of it. On the few accounts I've been required to use that require a phone number, I've given them one. It just happens to be one from a modem phone pool. I'll worry about what problem that may cause when it becomes one. Usually, these are for stupid things required for some project or another and the need for them is time-limited. I will not use FB, and have a pile of Twitter accounts with no phone numbers attached if I ever have reason to care about that. And at the rate we're destroying trust in the phone system with spam, I don't think anyone will expect pickups in a few more years.
- phs318u 8y agoAt the risk of going off topic (and without responding to the issue of Twitter requiring real phone numbers), I want to make a point regarding your last sentence. If a post is somehow sufficient to (potentially) warrant a prison sentence (eg for leaking state secrets or inciting terrorist acts), then I would suggest the amount of time that has passed is irrelevant (within jurisdictional bounds). If a crime has been committed, responding to that within the statue of limitations is not an issue of civil liberties. Getting away with a crime (something worthy of s prison sentence) is not a civil liberty anyone enjoys.
- reaperducer 8y agoYou're thinking too big. Think smaller and more common. Said something unpleasant about someone ten years ago? Guess what, he's the sheriff now, and has money in the budget to buy social media data on his enemies, or the freedom to tap into any shared federal database he likes. Next thing you know, there's a speed trap at the end of your block and each member of your family gets pulled over each day for a vehicle inspection. These sorts of things weren't unheard of before the internet. The abuse of big data just makes it easier now.
- selimthegrim 8y agoYou laugh, but in Terrebonne Parish, Louisiana, this was very much a thing recently. https://reason.com/blog/2017/09/08/sheriff-settles-over-blogger-raid https://reason.com/blog/2017/09/08/sheriff-settles-over-blog...
- crumpets 8y agoI think you forget that not every government is so nice. A comment against a young politician today could be a comment against the sitting dictator in 10 years that won’t care so much about the statute of limitations.
- miguelmota 8y agoAgree with the sentiment but what better alternative do you propose to prevent abuse?
- sadris 8y agoRequire a deposit to sign up. If you quit you get it back. If you get banned you lose it.
- CoryG89 8y agoThis is an interesting idea. Doubles as a strategy for monetizing.
- thekyle 8y agoI suppose you could take the deposits and earn interest on them as a possible supplemental revenue stream.
- ssalka 8y agoNot trying to go there but this very clearly sounds like a staking system
- awad 8y agoFrom an accounting perspective in this hypothetical scenario I believe that you would not be legally allowed to dip into the deposit money save for that recovered through bans. Which creates very perverse incentives.
- josh_carterPDX 8y agoI agree. The first thing I thought was that someone will build a script that creates a Twitter account then simply uses Twilio's API to create a valid phone number to receive verifications. Good luck Twitter!
- joering2 8y agoIt won’t do. Twilio (and basically majority of other virtual number providers, except of very tiny few located in Europe) do not provide regular cell-type text messaging capabilities, but rather something PBX pros call “short codes”. No self-respecting provider out there, be it Twitter Facebook, Gmail, Yahoo, Instagram, etc. will deliver your confirmation info via a short code. so you need regular ported cell number like Verizon or Tmobile. Twitter allows up to 5 accounts created on one cellphone number, given you give each other few days of rest and use popular VPN.
- josh_carterPDX 8y agoFull disclosure: I used to work at Twilio. We ported wireless numbers in and out all the time.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> Twilio (and basically majority of other virtual number providers, except of very tiny few located in Europe) do not provide regular cell-type text messaging capabilities, but rather something PBX pros call “short codes”. Twilio provides both regular phone numbers with SMS and MMS capability and short codes, the latter primarily for high-volume outbound messaging.
- ryanlol 8y agoThe regular twilio numbers still (mostly) aren’t going to work for this stuff.
- skinnymuch 8y agoThose won’t work either with most big services asking for verification. There’s subreddits dedicated to getting non VOIP phone numbers (which Twilio isn’t) for verification.
- pault 8y agoThis is the reason I bailed while trying to create a twitter account recently. How often do you change your phone number? Once these ad companies get hold of your phone number they can track you across multiple services and build a complete profile of everything you do and track your every move.