7 ms·

Is it possible to grow enough food in your backyard to live off of (plus chickens as a yard waste disposal) if you also work full time? I can't even eat at a re

• Deestan 8y ago
  Organic produce uses tons of pesticides some of which are really nasty (but hey it's "natural" copper sulfate), so that's not a solution to anything.
  • coldtea 8y ago
    Depends on the organic produce.
  • devmunchies 8y ago
    i thought organic by definition meant that it didn't use pesticides.
    • wpasc 8y ago
      No it just means that it uses a particular subset of pesticides and follows certain parameters. Many people will argue that its just a nonsense credential while others will say "better than nothing". I personally count myself in the latter
    • jerf 8y ago
      It depends on the definition of "organic". No sarcasm. There are many. And there is definitely a certain amount of deliberate equivocation whereby the product is labeled as "organic" according to one of the "weaker" standards and they expect you to read the word "organic" as one of the stronger ones, like "no pesticides at all".
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • mamon 8y ago
      The term "organic" only means something in Europe, because EU has much stricter rules regarding food quality and safety. In US it basically is just a marketing term meaning "overpriced food for hipsters".
      • cies 8y ago
        Really? We get a lot of "EU-ORG" (the leaf of stars logo) stuff that is also "USDA Organic" labelled. I wonder how many of those products do not have the EU-ORG label in the US. > EU has much stricter rules regarding food quality And within the EU the standards are also widely different, especially in the non-EU-ORG stuff.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • copperx 8y ago
      Organic by definition means carbon-based. So the rule is: "no synthetic pesticides, only organic ones."
  • specialist 8y ago
    This article explains the use of copper compounds for both conventional and organic apple crops is about the same. https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/05/23/a-behind-the-scenes-look-at-pesticide-use-in-organic-orchards-vineyards-and-fresh-produce/ https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/05/23/a-behind-the-s... The author solicited input from many farmers. He openly admits the official record keeping is lacking. So in some cases he has to infer amounts. Author also gives examples of organic crops which are (generally) more damaging than conventional. Such as organic bananas. TIL. But the general gist is that organic techniques use much less of much less toxic pesticides.
  • copperx 8y ago
    Ok, now you got me scared because copper is associated with Alzheimer's disease.
• AndrewGaspar 8y ago
  I find this comment kind of funny because the incredible byproduct of modern agriculture (including pesticides) is that the vast majority of the human race can now do something besides toiling away at food production.
  • pagnol 8y ago
    Has it been proven beyond doubt that we wouldn't be able to produce enough food without the use of pesticides?
    • AndrewGaspar 8y ago
      We may be able to support our current population without pesticides (I don't know, I'm not really that immersed in the economics of it), but not without backsliding on the advances we've made against global poverty.
      • pdonis 8y ago
        I think this is too pessimistic. If governments would stop messing around with subsidizing certain crops at the expense of others (not to mention so many third world governments cashing in on aid without any of it even getting to their people at all), food prices could be considerably cheaper than they are, even with pesticide-free farming methods. The main reasons for poverty today are political, not technical.
        • AndrewGaspar 8y ago
          "We don't need known, existing solution X if we solve the incredibly complex and old-as-time problem Y" isn't really a compelling argument. Like, I oppose food subsidies as much as anyone, but 1) I'm not under any illusion that they're going away, and 2) I'm not sure how eliminating them would change the underlying utility that pesticides have.
          • pdonis 8y ago
• ip26 8y ago
  Likely impossible to be fully self-sufficient while also working full time, but you can be strategic and pick fruits & vegetables that get you the most bang for your buck- e.g. how much it lowers your exposure vs gardening effort per kilo or calorie. Setting aside labor, it's generally considered that self-sufficient gardening requires anywhere between 0.5-2 acres of land, which is far bigger than your typical backyard.
• fooblitzky 8y ago
  Maybe not enough to live off, but you would be surprised by what is possible. Check out https://happenfilms.com/film/the-plummery https://happenfilms.com/film/the-plummery (free to watch, ~10 minutes).
• DoubleCribble 8y ago
  That depends on how big your backyard is and where you are located geographically. Assuming you have a temperate climate with decent soil... Can you build or afford to buy a greenhouse & a chicken coop? Do you have space for early, mid & late season orchards? (btw, how good are you at canning?) You'll probably also need a big shed or barn to store your tractor since you won't have the time to work the acres by hand.
• mtw 8y ago
  If you don't know how to grow food, there's this project that will seed and take care of plants https://farm.bot https://farm.bot From what I read, this produces enough veggies for a family of four all year round. Now producing beans, rice or wheat is another matter. I don't think its possible without moving to your own farm
  • strait 8y ago
    Don't include beans on that list! They are the easiest of all to produce, as long as your summer isn't too terribly cold. Maybe you were thinking of corn?
    • randomdata 8y ago
      Presumably the parent is referring to dry beans, which aren't exactly fun to process by hand. I grow them commercially and when we want to thresh even a small amount (i.e. nothing close to what one would want to sustain themselves on) for a moisture sample without having to take the combine to the field, it is a lot of work. Same goes for wheat. Anything that normally goes through a combine, really. Theoretically there should be nothing stopping one from growing any of those crops in small scale, assuming the right climate and soil conditions. There are small scale separating units that can be used to deal with the above. But it is tough to compete with the economies of scale that commercial operations have. These crops in particular are probably the most efficiently grown farm products of all. The cost of growing them at home will scare away most.
      • strait 8y ago
        I normally look forward to shelling my black beans by hand as I find it pleasant and relaxing, but yes, it does take some time that way, even for a few cups. However, I've also put loads of the shells into a sack when they were all pretty much dried and vigorously worked it over for less than a minute. Then, nearly all the beans will come pouring out into a pan where a fan or a little blowing will take out the little dry bits of shell. Not much work at all, though wheat is probably a lot tougher to do that way. A friend asked me why I bother with dry beans, when they are so cheap to buy anyway. I replied that I can control the inputs, resulting in the highest quality beans, and they are so easy to grow, so why not? I'm not growing a ton of them to sell, so I care less about the economies of scale.
• ChuckMcM 8y ago
  No it isn't possible. But if you're married (or cohabitating) it is possible for one of you to focus on wealth creation and the other to focus on supplying edibles such that you both have a good quality of life and reasonably self sufficient food production. The things you can't produce will be flour, sugar, spices (salt, pepper, Etc.) and will need to import, but with a flock of chickens and a dairy cow, and roughly 5 acres of land you can provide everything else. As I recall the Firefox survivalist series gave a pretty complete recipe for what you needed. You can substitute goats for the cow if you are ok with getting your milk, cheese, and meat that way. I don't recall if there was a purely vegetarian or vegan recipe.
  • sokoloff 8y ago
    What percentage of the world’s population is in a position to buy 5 acres of arable land and have half the couple tend to the farming full-time? 1 in 10,000? Less?
    • JoeAltmaier 8y ago
      Maybe a lot? Acres of farmland are pretty cheap. I takes only a mobile home to live there. Well, plus a well and septic tank. Maybe $25K?
      • sokoloff 8y ago
        As a Fermi problem, to try to understand the overall scale, I was intrigued to learn that there’s about the same number of arable acres of land as people in the world. Naturally, neither of these things is evenly distributed. In the place where my well-paying job is, it would be difficult for us to afford 5 arable acres on one locally top 5% income within a reasonable commute to my work.
        • ChuckMcM 8y ago
          You are conflating the terms "possible" and "practical" :-) There are communication technologies today that have made this more practical. 10 Gigabit microwave links are a thing these days. That said, there are a lot of variables. Community gardens, barter systems, and others which once you open up the problem to the question "can a community be self sufficient" you get into village design. [1] https://www.cablefree.net/cablefree-millimeter-wave-mmw/10g/ https://www.cablefree.net/cablefree-millimeter-wave-mmw/10g/
• noobermin 8y ago
  No, and this attitude of saving yourself so the rest of us can suffer is a large part of the problem with America. It only is better than the other attitude where you can make others suffer and profit off of it.
• majora2007 8y ago
  My wife and I are almost to the point where all of our veggies are from our backyard. Fruit is a WIP as we have a few trees and bushes, but they take a few years to start producing. We both work full time and spend the weekends out in the yard harvesting/planning. With irrigation to water and a little planning, it becomes a passive hobby. I will say, I think you'll still need to buy stuff, like beans, broths, spices, etc. You can't have it all in your backyard, but you can have the primaries.
  • strait 8y ago
    Beans keep being mentioned on the list of things not worth growing, when in fact, I've grown all the beans I've ever needed in very little space. Also the nitrogen fixation in the roots is a significant benefit for growing high protein content beans in less soil. (The roots don't require such a far and wide area for nitrogen scavenging.)
    • potta_coffee 8y ago
      There are plants that grown together can help preserve soil etc. Google the "Three Sisters".
• hinkley 8y ago
  The basic argument is that you can’t get enough calories from a back yard garden, for a city lot. You can chose to purchase staple crops and get a considerable variety of produce and herbs from your yard, or you can dedicate every square inch to calories and die of malnutrition. Or for less work, you can improve your quality of life by focusing on a smaller array of fresh produce and herbs from your yard, and buy everything else.
• jdietrich 8y ago
  >Is it possible to grow enough food in your backyard to live off of (plus chickens as a yard waste disposal) if you also work full time? No. I'd advise against trying unless you know what you're doing - the land around your home might be perfectly safe to live on, but it may well be dangerous to grow food in. Large areas of the San Francisco Bay area have horrendously toxic soil as a legacy of the semiconductor industry; the average gardener isn't equipped to test their soil for contaminants. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/lens/the-superfund-sites-of-silicon-valley.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/lens/the-superfund-sites-...
• driverdan 8y ago
  > I can't even eat at a restaurant without knowing if they use organic produce. That doesn't make sense. Organic produce isn't healthier than conventional produce. Even worse it requires significantly more water and allows for nastier pesticides and herbicides. Read up on the history of organic farming and look at what certification allows.
• merpnderp 8y ago
  Without pesticides? As an layman I doubt it. A few friends in my neighborhood started a garden and one of us said we couldn't use any pesticides that weren't organic. Bugs and fungus destroyed most of our crops. We spent hours and hours sitting on our knees rubbing soapy water on the bottom of the zucchini leaves trying to get rid of the squash bugs, to zero effect. I finally called enough and said we were dusting everything with sevendust. The next day all the bugs were gone. I have no idea how people could farm on the ground, in any quantity, without pesticides.
  • BostonFern 8y ago
    I don't mean to be haunting your comments, but you might want to look into organic pest control and techniques like companion planting. There's this popuar traditional American Indian one called the Three Sisters Garden, which is a method of growing three specific crops together that all benefit from each other's individual strengths to thrive and better fend off some pathogens. Regarding your squash bugs, if I remember correctly, some ants will hunt them without hurting your crops. That's maybe a little counter-intuitive, but it might be worth looking into. People have been farming organically for thousands of years. I'm sure much of it just comes down to knowledge about various crops and the local environment and then applying common sense and creativity.
• strait 8y ago
  Yes, it's possible if your lot isn't too tiny or too shaded and your climate isn't extreme. Even a quarter to a half acre space can grow quite a lot, if you're smart about it. But there will be a lot of learning and the summer effort would be a major hobby for you, no doubt. Chickens or rabbits will need to eat significantly more protein than what yard waste provides if you want meaningful chicken or rabbit output, so plan on either external inputs for them or having a large enough area dedicated to growing their additional beans/corn/seeds. If your lot is small and your goal is to be self contained, then you will probably opt for being vegetarian. Study up on Permaculture methods. There is a lot of wisdom there. Corn and soybeans still pack a lot of nutrition for us, if you can grow them and know how to process them for full effect. (Make masa from corn and tempeh from soybeans.) Potatoes are another option for calories.