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Indeed it is illegal and you'll definitely get into trouble with some law enforcement agency if you impersonate the government. But there's not a US Trademark R

Indeed it is illegal and you'll definitely get into trouble with some law enforcement agency if you impersonate the government. But there's not a US Trademark Renewal Services Department to impersonate. You can name your company anything that's not already someone else's property or the name of a governmental body. Are these companies despicable? Yes. Are they misleading people? I'd say so. Can you make a fraud charge stick? Probably not. In cases I've seen, if you read the entire document, including fine print, and you think logically about the content, you can deduce that the companies sending these notices/invoices/wtfe are just hoping the target isn't savvy enough to figure things out.

rad_gruchalski 8y ago
In the UK, there is a list of words which can’t be used as part of a registered company name: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and-names/annex-a-sensitive-words-and-expressions-or-words-that-could-imply-a-connection-with-government https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and...
- gcb0 8y ago
  are suggesting the US should adopt sane, simple, effective legislation?! I'm shocked at your attack on freedom! they will probably solve this by curating a list of "good words to register your company" which then can be claimed as a tax exemption that requires two new forms. which adds $25 to services bill at H&Rblock. like God intended.
  - smudgymcscmudge 8y ago
    Bad news. In the US, businesses’ God given right to impersonate the government is already being infringed. I ran across this when reading the rules to register a business a few years back. Maybe it was just a state law, but if that’s on the books in Texas, it’s probably prohibited in all states.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > there is a list of words which can’t be used as part of a registered company name Similar prohibitions exist in America. They’re typically handled at the state level, however, since incorporation is done by states. (Some federal prohibitions exist, however. Like on calling oneself a “national bank.”)
  - roywiggins 8y ago
    Which just means the persistent can just find a state to incorporate in that is just a little bit more lax than the others...
    - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
      > Which just means the persistent can just find a state to incorporate in that is just a little bit more lax than the others At that point, set up in Latvia. Generally speaking, companies incorporated outside Delaware or the state they’re physically in get extra scrutiny. Also, if your only check before issuing payment is looking at the entity’s name, that’s more the problem than anything else.
jakobegger 8y ago
> Can you make a fraud charge stick? Probably not. I wouldn't rely on weasel-wording to keep you out of jail. Even if those people aren't technically lying, it's obvious that they attempt to mislead people into paying for services they have never ordered.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  In some of those cases, they're trying to convince someone into ordering a service and paying for it at the same moment. My domains have public registration, so I get a lot of these BS solicitations. (It pleases me every time I get one, because these scammers^DELentrepreneurs are losing money on each of my domains... "If your domain lapses and no one can get to your site, you could lose business or even lose the domain entirely. Renew your domain today for only $99.95!" "If you don't submit your business to Google and drop off of search results, your business could suffer. Send us $100 and we'll handle submitting your site to Google for you." Those statements are not technically wrong; these companies are soliciting to provide a service; obviously techies find the practice abhorrent and misleading, but they live in a muddy grey area where they provide some service and charge money for it.
  - 0x0 8y ago
    How are they losing money on each of your domains?
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      They're mailing me a letter, spending an envelope stuff and a stamp on a domain owner who will never convert.
      - jonas21 8y ago
        They usually include a business reply mail envelope too. I make sure to drop those into the mail empty so they get charged for that as well.
hopler 8y ago
Lying to people for money via mail is wire fraud, a state and federal crime.
js2 8y ago
The government used to care about what it alleged was deceptive mail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publishers_Clearing_House#Government_regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publishers_Clearing_House#Gove...

rad_gruchalski 8y ago

In the UK, there is a list of words which can’t be used as part of a registered company name: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and-names/annex-a-sensitive-words-and-expressions-or-words-that-could-imply-a-connection-with-government https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and...

gcb0 8y ago
are suggesting the US should adopt sane, simple, effective legislation?! I'm shocked at your attack on freedom! they will probably solve this by curating a list of "good words to register your company" which then can be claimed as a tax exemption that requires two new forms. which adds $25 to services bill at H&Rblock. like God intended.
- smudgymcscmudge 8y ago
  Bad news. In the US, businesses’ God given right to impersonate the government is already being infringed. I ran across this when reading the rules to register a business a few years back. Maybe it was just a state law, but if that’s on the books in Texas, it’s probably prohibited in all states.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> there is a list of words which can’t be used as part of a registered company name Similar prohibitions exist in America. They’re typically handled at the state level, however, since incorporation is done by states. (Some federal prohibitions exist, however. Like on calling oneself a “national bank.”)
- roywiggins 8y ago
  Which just means the persistent can just find a state to incorporate in that is just a little bit more lax than the others...
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > Which just means the persistent can just find a state to incorporate in that is just a little bit more lax than the others At that point, set up in Latvia. Generally speaking, companies incorporated outside Delaware or the state they’re physically in get extra scrutiny. Also, if your only check before issuing payment is looking at the entity’s name, that’s more the problem than anything else.

jakobegger 8y ago

> Can you make a fraud charge stick? Probably not. I wouldn't rely on weasel-wording to keep you out of jail. Even if those people aren't technically lying, it's obvious that they attempt to mislead people into paying for services they have never ordered.

sokoloff 8y ago
In some of those cases, they're trying to convince someone into ordering a service and paying for it at the same moment. My domains have public registration, so I get a lot of these BS solicitations. (It pleases me every time I get one, because these scammers^DELentrepreneurs are losing money on each of my domains... "If your domain lapses and no one can get to your site, you could lose business or even lose the domain entirely. Renew your domain today for only $99.95!" "If you don't submit your business to Google and drop off of search results, your business could suffer. Send us $100 and we'll handle submitting your site to Google for you." Those statements are not technically wrong; these companies are soliciting to provide a service; obviously techies find the practice abhorrent and misleading, but they live in a muddy grey area where they provide some service and charge money for it.
- 0x0 8y ago
  How are they losing money on each of your domains?
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    They're mailing me a letter, spending an envelope stuff and a stamp on a domain owner who will never convert.
    - jonas21 8y ago
      They usually include a business reply mail envelope too. I make sure to drop those into the mail empty so they get charged for that as well.

hopler 8y ago

Lying to people for money via mail is wire fraud, a state and federal crime.

js2 8y ago

The government used to care about what it alleged was deceptive mail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publishers_Clearing_House#Government_regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publishers_Clearing_House#Gove...