9 ms·

iTerm2 beta adds Python API

145 points by 20after4 8y ago

20after4 8y ago
One api feature looks especially cool - that is CustomControlSequenceMonitor provides a way to implement custom terminal control sequences and extend the terminal with richer functionality.
monkin 8y ago
Love it and use it from some time! Scriptable status bar is also awesome feature. :)
frou_dh 8y ago
Sometimes I've wished that Sublime Text's API used JS so that I didn't have to know Python just for one program. It seems a waste having to keep a battalion of imperative OO languages in one's head just for incidental use.
- garmaine 8y ago
  I would say the same about JS, which I've never used once in my life. Not everything is done in a browser.
  - frou_dh 8y ago
    Then we agree on the generalized problem.
    - fargo 8y ago
      Not the OP, just wanted to say that what you are suggesting is extremely unpopular and controversial here, would you care to expand on your reasoning?
    - asveikau 8y ago
      1990s Microsoft solved this problem with COM. For example, cscript.exe exposes both VBScript and JS, and they can talk to c++ via the same COM interfaces.
- pushpop 8y ago
  Learning other languages is not a waste. It actually makes you a better developer.
  - frou_dh 8y ago
    That's true if learning meaningfully different languages, but much less so if it's a 5th imperative OO language.
    - m45t3r 8y ago
      Python and JavaScript have vastly different idioms, and learning both makes you think different. Learn both still makes you a better programmer, even considering they're both OOP languages
      - frou_dh 8y ago
        Like someone with keys to the world should spend time living in both Scotland and England to absorb the vast cultural differences?
        pushpop 8y ago
        Living in both? Certainly not. However I would advocate visiting Scotland if you’re English. It’s a beautiful country. Likewise nobody says you need to be a full time developer in every language to get benefit from learning them.
        frou_dh 8y ago
        The original comment that is evidently so objectionable mentioned keeping a language (and by implication its libraries) in one's head. It's a known fact that this type of knowledge is use-it-or-lose-it. So drawing on it only occasionally is terribly suboptimal.
        pushpop 8y ago
- nkozyra 8y ago
  I understand the concern, but how many scripting languages are really used embedded in applications? It's usually python or Lua.
  - heinrichhartman 8y ago
    ... or Lisp.
- bjoli 8y ago
  My favourite language is guile scheme which makes me all too familiar with your feelings. Not only that: embedding python is a shitty experience compared to embedding lua or guile, and you have to work around the fact that python has no threads and that it is borderline impossible to run multiple independent interpreters in the same process.
  - UncleEntity 8y ago
    > Not only that: embedding python is a shitty experience compared to embedding lua or guile... That's a "feature", they prefer for people to extend python over embedding it in other applications. That said, it isn't too bad unless you maintain the python c-api binding by hand since there's a lot of boilerplate and they like to change the api often. Almost all my blender hacking was on the python API and that's crazy complicated compared to a terminal emulator. For example, all of the (context sensitive) operators are callable from python since the UI is controlled by python scripts. > ...and you have to work around the fact that python has no threads and that it is borderline impossible to run multiple independent interpreters in the same process. Pretty sure python has threads;P and has had subinterpreters[0] for a long time. Haven't really messed with either one other than making sure my C extensions release the GIL though. I did attempt to embed lua in an application once and from what I can remember it was...interesting. Having to control the stack took some getting used to and their boilerplate was just as full featured as python's. I also don't remember being able to find useful automation scripts, with python I usually just bang out a quick prototype with pybindgen then hand edit it until I'm happy. [0] https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/init.html#sub-interpreter-support https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/init.html#sub-interpreter-su...
    - bjoli 8y ago
      No proper concurrent threads was of course what I meant. In that light the subinterpreter feature is also not very good, since all sib-interpreters share a GIL (but iirc there is a PEP out there that might make python properly multi-core through some kind of CSP-approach and independent subinterpreters).
j88439h84 8y ago
Kitty terminal has a Python API too, and it's got images and high performance, etc. https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/ https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/
- gazarullz 8y ago
  Been using kitty on both osx and debian, I am very happy with the performance and out-of-the box features so far.
  - tramtrist 8y ago
    I may be doing it wrong but the lack of IME (Japanese) Input support and the refusal of the author to support it is quite sad and makes it a non-starter for me and I assume many others
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  I tried switching to Kitty last year, but then it stopped working properly with the OSX 10.14 release. It turns out this was a known issue from the beta, but the author decided not to do anything about it until the release [1]. I can't rely on a terminal that's maintained like that. [1] https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/887#issuecomment-419138736 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/887#issuecomment-...
  - photonios 8y ago
    Give Alacritty [1] a try. I am very happy with its performance, it just feels fast and solid. The difference in latency is really noticeable to me compared to iTerm2 or Terminal.app. Alacritty just feels significantly faster. [1] https://github.com/jwilm/alacritty https://github.com/jwilm/alacritty Disclaimer: I am not associated with the project in any way. Just a fan.
    - daveFNbuck 8y ago
      People keep talking about the obvious latency difference. I don't notice any latency on iTerm2 and didn't see a difference when I was trying Kitty. What am I missing?
saagarjha 8y ago
Ooh, nice! Been waiting for this for a while; now I can finally change my terminal's theme automatically when the system appearance changes: https://gist.github.com/saagarjha/9a99ed4bc68a37bab097cc6ee83a75ab https://gist.github.com/saagarjha/9a99ed4bc68a37bab097cc6ee8... Although, I clicked through the status bar stuff and now I can't figure out how to get it back :(
- 20after4 8y ago
  Under preferences -> appearance you can choose status bar position: bottom (or top). Then you can right click on the status bar to get to the editor.
  - the_other 8y ago
    I really want to turn off the status bar. I can tell I'm not going to use it, and now it's just taking up space and confusing my habituated eye as I scan the screen. Anyone found an off-button?
    - nklas 8y ago
      Go to Preferences > Profiles > Session and at the bottom there's a checkbox labeled "Status Bar Enabled".
iconara 8y ago
On the Example Script page (https://iterm2.com/python-api/tutorial/example.html https://iterm2.com/python-api/tutorial/example.html) it says that the script communicates with the application using websockets ("The underlying implementation uses Google protobuf and websockets"). This makes me think that it could support other languages and ways of scripting it in the future.
- bitwize 8y ago
  Wait, web sockets? Why not regular old sockets? Why not restrict it to Unix domain sockets so that only authorized users can talk to the iTerm instance?
  - tdrd 8y ago
    Maybe so folks could build web UIs to interact with a local instance? Can't do raw TCP/UDP from a web browser.
    - bitwize 8y ago
      Then write a bloody wrapper. Controlling my terminal emulators through a browser is like managing processes with Doom: something that, while interesting and certainly shouldn't be precluded, I am unable to think of a use case where I would actually do it. Making web sockets the scripting interface for a program that in most cases you do NOT want to actually expose to the web a) makes no sense; b) is a security incident waiting to happen.
      - booi 8y ago
        Manage processes with Doom you say...
        bitwize 8y ago
        Yes, I was specifically referring to this: https://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/chi/chi.html https://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/chi/chi.html
akerl_ 8y ago
One thing I’d love to port to this: I switch between a 4K monitor and my built-in. The same font size definitely doesn’t work between the two of them. I’ve got a script in my .bashrc that checks the resolution of the current monitor and sets the Profile of the session using the older control-code based API, flipping between a profile for each monitor resolution. With the new API, I can see methods for overriding profile settings on an individual session, but not a method for changing the profile a session is using to another saved profile. Does such a method exist?
chrisweekly 8y ago
Tangent: like Python in your terminal/shell? See also https://xon.sh https://xon.sh
jadiofan 8y ago
iTerm2 is great, thanks to George Nachman for the hard work. I recently installed Mojave from scratch, fresh and clean environment. I'm trying to keep things pretty minimal. I'm giving Terminal (macOS) another shot - so far it's been great. I've only missed split panes but when I really needed I used tmux. Other than that I realize I didn't use much of the functionality offered by iTerm2. What are the features in iTerm2 that you use the most?
- o10449366 8y ago
  Honestly, while it isn't a feature that's unique to iTerm2 by any means, I just appreciate how easy it is to theme the colors and appearance. I used Arch Linux for many years before moving to Mac OS and messing around with urxvt configuration files if I wanted full 256 color or font support was somewhat tedious. It's nice to just have something that's easy to setup and always works and looks the way I want given I'm looking at my terminal for 75% of my day.
- ViViDboarder 8y ago
  I tried the same thing a year or so ago and there were a few items that brought me back to iTerm2. They’re going to seem super minor, but I use them often enough that it made a difference. Text selection is better and customizable. Makes it easier to select things like up addresses with a double click. Hotkey window is just too damn convenient. I end up using it all the time when I just need to execute one-off commands. It’s gonna sound super minor, but
  - 1123581321 8y ago
    I use Hammerspoon to hotkey Terminal (and a bunch of other apps with other shortcuts) with ctrl+` like I used to do with iTerm: -- Give Terminal the same toggle as iTerm 2 hs.hotkey.bind('ctrl', '`', function() if hs.application.title(hs.application.frontmostApplication()) == "Terminal" then hs.eventtap.keyStroke('cmd', 'h') else hs.application.launchOrFocus("Terminal.app") end end) I’m not opposed to iTerm, but I needed a break from heavy customized environments for a bit and this was the one feature I needed to replicate.
- 8y ago
sirsuki 8y ago
both iTerm2 and Terminal.app got so slow that I switched to Hyper which contrary to common sense is blazing fast for me. I’ve also started experimenting with URXVT via XQuartz but the native feel just isn’t there like it is for Hyper. Who knew Electron apps could out perform native ones (even with GPU acceleration in iTerm2’s case)! I don’t know how or why but in this case it is so.
- vimslayer 8y ago
  I don't think the main gripe people have with Electron has ever been performance, V8 is plenty fast after all, it's more about the memory footprint.
- CharlesW 8y ago
  > Who knew Electron apps could out perform native ones (even with GPU acceleration in iTerm2’s case)! I don’t know how or why but in this case it is so. How are you measuring?

145 points by 20after4 8y ago

One api feature looks especially cool - that is CustomControlSequenceMonitor provides a way to implement custom terminal control sequences and extend the terminal with richer functionality.

monkin 8y ago

Love it and use it from some time! Scriptable status bar is also awesome feature. :)

frou_dh 8y ago

Sometimes I've wished that Sublime Text's API used JS so that I didn't have to know Python just for one program. It seems a waste having to keep a battalion of imperative OO languages in one's head just for incidental use.

garmaine 8y ago
I would say the same about JS, which I've never used once in my life. Not everything is done in a browser.
- frou_dh 8y ago
  Then we agree on the generalized problem.
  - fargo 8y ago
    Not the OP, just wanted to say that what you are suggesting is extremely unpopular and controversial here, would you care to expand on your reasoning?
  - asveikau 8y ago
    1990s Microsoft solved this problem with COM. For example, cscript.exe exposes both VBScript and JS, and they can talk to c++ via the same COM interfaces.
pushpop 8y ago
Learning other languages is not a waste. It actually makes you a better developer.
- frou_dh 8y ago
  That's true if learning meaningfully different languages, but much less so if it's a 5th imperative OO language.
  - m45t3r 8y ago
    Python and JavaScript have vastly different idioms, and learning both makes you think different. Learn both still makes you a better programmer, even considering they're both OOP languages
    - frou_dh 8y ago
      Like someone with keys to the world should spend time living in both Scotland and England to absorb the vast cultural differences?
      - pushpop 8y ago
        Living in both? Certainly not. However I would advocate visiting Scotland if you’re English. It’s a beautiful country. Likewise nobody says you need to be a full time developer in every language to get benefit from learning them.
        frou_dh 8y ago
        The original comment that is evidently so objectionable mentioned keeping a language (and by implication its libraries) in one's head. It's a known fact that this type of knowledge is use-it-or-lose-it. So drawing on it only occasionally is terribly suboptimal.
        pushpop 8y ago
nkozyra 8y ago
I understand the concern, but how many scripting languages are really used embedded in applications? It's usually python or Lua.
- heinrichhartman 8y ago
  ... or Lisp.
bjoli 8y ago
My favourite language is guile scheme which makes me all too familiar with your feelings. Not only that: embedding python is a shitty experience compared to embedding lua or guile, and you have to work around the fact that python has no threads and that it is borderline impossible to run multiple independent interpreters in the same process.
- UncleEntity 8y ago
  > Not only that: embedding python is a shitty experience compared to embedding lua or guile... That's a "feature", they prefer for people to extend python over embedding it in other applications. That said, it isn't too bad unless you maintain the python c-api binding by hand since there's a lot of boilerplate and they like to change the api often. Almost all my blender hacking was on the python API and that's crazy complicated compared to a terminal emulator. For example, all of the (context sensitive) operators are callable from python since the UI is controlled by python scripts. > ...and you have to work around the fact that python has no threads and that it is borderline impossible to run multiple independent interpreters in the same process. Pretty sure python has threads;P and has had subinterpreters[0] for a long time. Haven't really messed with either one other than making sure my C extensions release the GIL though. I did attempt to embed lua in an application once and from what I can remember it was...interesting. Having to control the stack took some getting used to and their boilerplate was just as full featured as python's. I also don't remember being able to find useful automation scripts, with python I usually just bang out a quick prototype with pybindgen then hand edit it until I'm happy. [0] https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/init.html#sub-interpreter-support https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/init.html#sub-interpreter-su...
  - bjoli 8y ago
    No proper concurrent threads was of course what I meant. In that light the subinterpreter feature is also not very good, since all sib-interpreters share a GIL (but iirc there is a PEP out there that might make python properly multi-core through some kind of CSP-approach and independent subinterpreters).

j88439h84 8y ago

Kitty terminal has a Python API too, and it's got images and high performance, etc. https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/ https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/

gazarullz 8y ago
Been using kitty on both osx and debian, I am very happy with the performance and out-of-the box features so far.
- tramtrist 8y ago
  I may be doing it wrong but the lack of IME (Japanese) Input support and the refusal of the author to support it is quite sad and makes it a non-starter for me and I assume many others
daveFNbuck 8y ago
I tried switching to Kitty last year, but then it stopped working properly with the OSX 10.14 release. It turns out this was a known issue from the beta, but the author decided not to do anything about it until the release [1]. I can't rely on a terminal that's maintained like that. [1] https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/887#issuecomment-419138736 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/887#issuecomment-...
- photonios 8y ago
  Give Alacritty [1] a try. I am very happy with its performance, it just feels fast and solid. The difference in latency is really noticeable to me compared to iTerm2 or Terminal.app. Alacritty just feels significantly faster. [1] https://github.com/jwilm/alacritty https://github.com/jwilm/alacritty Disclaimer: I am not associated with the project in any way. Just a fan.
  - daveFNbuck 8y ago
    People keep talking about the obvious latency difference. I don't notice any latency on iTerm2 and didn't see a difference when I was trying Kitty. What am I missing?

saagarjha 8y ago

Ooh, nice! Been waiting for this for a while; now I can finally change my terminal's theme automatically when the system appearance changes: https://gist.github.com/saagarjha/9a99ed4bc68a37bab097cc6ee83a75ab https://gist.github.com/saagarjha/9a99ed4bc68a37bab097cc6ee8... Although, I clicked through the status bar stuff and now I can't figure out how to get it back :(

20after4 8y ago
Under preferences -> appearance you can choose status bar position: bottom (or top). Then you can right click on the status bar to get to the editor.
- the_other 8y ago
  I really want to turn off the status bar. I can tell I'm not going to use it, and now it's just taking up space and confusing my habituated eye as I scan the screen. Anyone found an off-button?
  - nklas 8y ago
    Go to Preferences > Profiles > Session and at the bottom there's a checkbox labeled "Status Bar Enabled".

iconara 8y ago

On the Example Script page (https://iterm2.com/python-api/tutorial/example.html https://iterm2.com/python-api/tutorial/example.html) it says that the script communicates with the application using websockets ("The underlying implementation uses Google protobuf and websockets"). This makes me think that it could support other languages and ways of scripting it in the future.

bitwize 8y ago
Wait, web sockets? Why not regular old sockets? Why not restrict it to Unix domain sockets so that only authorized users can talk to the iTerm instance?
- tdrd 8y ago
  Maybe so folks could build web UIs to interact with a local instance? Can't do raw TCP/UDP from a web browser.
  - bitwize 8y ago
    Then write a bloody wrapper. Controlling my terminal emulators through a browser is like managing processes with Doom: something that, while interesting and certainly shouldn't be precluded, I am unable to think of a use case where I would actually do it. Making web sockets the scripting interface for a program that in most cases you do NOT want to actually expose to the web a) makes no sense; b) is a security incident waiting to happen.
    - booi 8y ago
      Manage processes with Doom you say...
      - bitwize 8y ago
        Yes, I was specifically referring to this: https://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/chi/chi.html https://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/chi/chi.html

akerl_ 8y ago

One thing I’d love to port to this: I switch between a 4K monitor and my built-in. The same font size definitely doesn’t work between the two of them. I’ve got a script in my .bashrc that checks the resolution of the current monitor and sets the Profile of the session using the older control-code based API, flipping between a profile for each monitor resolution. With the new API, I can see methods for overriding profile settings on an individual session, but not a method for changing the profile a session is using to another saved profile. Does such a method exist?

chrisweekly 8y ago

Tangent: like Python in your terminal/shell? See also https://xon.sh https://xon.sh

jadiofan 8y ago

iTerm2 is great, thanks to George Nachman for the hard work. I recently installed Mojave from scratch, fresh and clean environment. I'm trying to keep things pretty minimal. I'm giving Terminal (macOS) another shot - so far it's been great. I've only missed split panes but when I really needed I used tmux. Other than that I realize I didn't use much of the functionality offered by iTerm2. What are the features in iTerm2 that you use the most?

o10449366 8y ago
Honestly, while it isn't a feature that's unique to iTerm2 by any means, I just appreciate how easy it is to theme the colors and appearance. I used Arch Linux for many years before moving to Mac OS and messing around with urxvt configuration files if I wanted full 256 color or font support was somewhat tedious. It's nice to just have something that's easy to setup and always works and looks the way I want given I'm looking at my terminal for 75% of my day.
ViViDboarder 8y ago
I tried the same thing a year or so ago and there were a few items that brought me back to iTerm2. They’re going to seem super minor, but I use them often enough that it made a difference. Text selection is better and customizable. Makes it easier to select things like up addresses with a double click. Hotkey window is just too damn convenient. I end up using it all the time when I just need to execute one-off commands. It’s gonna sound super minor, but
- 1123581321 8y ago
  I use Hammerspoon to hotkey Terminal (and a bunch of other apps with other shortcuts) with ctrl+` like I used to do with iTerm: -- Give Terminal the same toggle as iTerm 2 hs.hotkey.bind('ctrl', '`', function() if hs.application.title(hs.application.frontmostApplication()) == "Terminal" then hs.eventtap.keyStroke('cmd', 'h') else hs.application.launchOrFocus("Terminal.app") end end) I’m not opposed to iTerm, but I needed a break from heavy customized environments for a bit and this was the one feature I needed to replicate.
8y ago

sirsuki 8y ago

both iTerm2 and Terminal.app got so slow that I switched to Hyper which contrary to common sense is blazing fast for me. I’ve also started experimenting with URXVT via XQuartz but the native feel just isn’t there like it is for Hyper. Who knew Electron apps could out perform native ones (even with GPU acceleration in iTerm2’s case)! I don’t know how or why but in this case it is so.

vimslayer 8y ago
I don't think the main gripe people have with Electron has ever been performance, V8 is plenty fast after all, it's more about the memory footprint.
CharlesW 8y ago
> Who knew Electron apps could out perform native ones (even with GPU acceleration in iTerm2’s case)! I don’t know how or why but in this case it is so. How are you measuring?