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Recently I rented an Airbnb that turned out to be nothing like the pictures. The building that the apartment was in was falling apart, stank of cigarettes and w

Recently I rented an Airbnb that turned out to be nothing like the pictures. The building that the apartment was in was falling apart, stank of cigarettes and was on a sharp slant to the point where my suitcase would roll if I left it standing in the apartment. I left immediately, booked a hotel and messaged the host for a refund - they said no. I had to get Airbnb involved and they asked if I would accept a partial refund. I said no. The Host asked me to cancel my trip, but I refused because I would have to agree to not accept a refund of more than $30. At the end of my stay I was asked to leave a review and I left an honest, critical review of the apartment. Airbnb immediately messaged me asking if I'd accept a full refund to take down my review. This is the kind of sketchy activity that will keep me booking hotels instead. I now have no faith in a place with all good reviews, as guests who leave critical reviews probably removed them for refunds similar to me.

lugg 8y ago
I thought Airbnb was supposed to cover the cost of your alternative accommodation in this scenario as well? If airbnb isn't giving you a full refund without removing a negative review just issue a charge back. No way they will fight it with that behavior on record.
- stephencoyner 8y ago
  They didn't offer even though I told them we went to a hotel and I've never heard of this before, so I didn't ask. But given how hard it was to get a refund, I wouldn't imagine they would have offered anything more. Thanks for sharing, good to know for future reference.
- dillondoyle 8y ago
  One should get a refund of the canceled booking but my last experience is they did NOT cover the extra cost of booking alternative hotel. Had a NYE reservation in London canceled hours before my flight. Had to get hotel rooms ( I brought my parents on the trip ). AirBnb support absolutely useless in rebooking (and no options, just one not close to similar listing repeating multiple times from different 'hosts'). What makes me so angry though was that a phone support agent told me they would give me 50% of a few days of the airbnb reservation cost to cover extra costs. I asked them to push too manager to cover full difference. But instead of offering to cover costs, over chat/email they claimed the phone person never made a promise and only paid me $85 (the difference was multiple thousands). I asked for the recording but they never responded. I looked into arbitration but the cost/benefit of my time wasted doesn't work out.
  - ashelmire 8y ago
    Why not have your bank issue a chargeback? Takes like 5 minutes, never had any issues with it.
    - dillondoyle 8y ago
      Maybe I wasn't clear. I got a refund for the price of canceled airbnb. But I had to get two hotels rooms, same day over NYE. Which was an extra few thousand on top of the canceled amount. This is the contention, where someone no phone told me an amount but then in the end I only got $85.
      - ashelmire 8y ago
        Ah, thanks for the clarification, I misread it.
- ibejoeb 8y ago
  Just last month, Airbnb reneged on its offer to cover the cost of my alternative accommodations when they let me a place without running water. Then they had to audacity to charge me for the first night; "it's policy," they said. Spent perhaps 5 hours chasing down their agents who use pseudonyms, don't have phone numbers, and have no stake in the matter. Now they deal with American Express. Airbnb makes Uber look like Mr. Rogers.
  - TAForObvReasons 8y ago
    Given that AirBnB is a YC company, maybe the best strategy is to use the Hacker News support channel? Other YC companies like CoinBase have notoriously bad customer support except for when posts reach the front page of Hacker News
    - ibejoeb 8y ago
      Even if that were something that I could do, it's terrible that the MO is to fuck the customer. * It turns out it was an illegal unit to begin with * The unit was uninhabitable and would be unable to get a CO even if it weren't otherwise illegal * The host wasn't a real person. It was a persona. * A third-party is facilitating the whole thing. That company is called Makomi (https://makomi.com/ https://makomi.com/) and makes its money operating illegal sublets in NYC. Everyone here is playing the arms-length game as if there is some kind of plausible deniability that they are not prima facie illegal, and then they pile on by being dodgy even on top of that. It's unfortunate, because when Airbnb works well, it's great, and when the slightest thing is wrong, it's donkey show.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - lugg 8y ago
        Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees the irony here?
        8y ago
jcoffland 8y ago
I've had Airbnb simply ghost my negative review. It shows up on my account but not on the rental page. I called Airbnb for an explanation they said it could take some time for the review to show up. It never did.
- praptak 8y ago
  You could post both screenshots somewhere public.
  - atomical 8y ago
    Airbnb will probably terminate his account for doing that.
    - ashelmire 8y ago
      ...and nothing of value would be lost. A minor sacrifice to do good.
    - praptak 8y ago
      Then it would be HN front-page rage material. But I agree it's just a possibility, not a moral obligation.
      - atomical 8y ago
        No, seriously. There is a TOS against posting reviews outside of Airbnb. A medium blog post was posted here about it[0]. > I still can’t believe that leaving an offsite review was a bannable offense, but even more disturbing to me is the way AirBnB handled the situation with a one-sided, permanent, irreversible, closed book suspension. [0] https://medium.com/@jacksoncunningham/digital-exile-how-i-got-banned-for-life-from-airbnb-615434c6eeba https://medium.com/@jacksoncunningham/digital-exile-how-i-go...
        praptak 8y ago
        You don't have to post the review itself, just a screenshot showing that it exists. Btw, thanks for posting this, this is valuable to everyone who considers using their services.
dillondoyle 8y ago
I've also had VERY bad airbnb experiences deteriorating over the last 1.5 years ever since their intention to IPO/make profit. I'm a frequent traveler (4+ months abroad a year) and most of that time was in airbnbs. I made a pact to never use again if I can help it from here out. I could give multiple examples/long stories. What's sad is the first many years using service were amazing! I will not be buying their stock post IPO (and avoid renting at all costs); I'd be curious to see if a short is sustainable because it seems like I'm not the only one, compounding with all these other problems.
alkonaut 8y ago
Why is it in AirBnB’s interest to help the fraud landlord? Isn’t it in their interest to get accurate reviews for bad properties to avoid having to refund again and again for the same place?
- ashelmire 8y ago
  Is it any surprise that a vc funded business is short sighted? They are interested in getting to an ipo, not building a sustainable business where their reputation matters. I actually think there’s a strong case that cultivated reviews (which are then displayed prominently next to product ads and sales pages) violates truth in advertising laws[1]. This is effectively the default in tech though; every company removes bad reviews because it’s in their financial interest in the short term. 1. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advert...
  - alkonaut 8y ago
    But why is beneficial even for short term and valuation? Being the company known for fraud listings, lots of customers demanding refunds and so on can’t be better for growth and a future IPO than it would be if these (presumably quite rare) listings and their landlords were simply removed after refunding the renter?
    - ashelmire 8y ago
      Presumably because it's systemic and extremely costly to fix, so doing something about it would seriously damage their reported revenue and income, thus reducing their value at IPO. Somebody did the math and determined the damaged reputation would hurt them less than lower revenue for now.
pmart123 8y ago
I once took it upon myself to do an investigation after a terrible experience. Within 15 minutes I found that: 1. The building had numerous building code violations per NYC 2. The building owner had links to the Russian mob written up in Nytimes. I dealt with completely awful customer service. Like terrible from Airbnb. Hours on the phone dealing with idiots. I finally get someone who mattered after I cc’d my friend who was an editor at the WSJ threatening publication of the experience. She finally gets on the phone, and I’m like, “ever thing to check listings against building code records?” Her response, “Wow, that is a great idea! Why didn’t we think of that!” Ditto for criminal ties and records of the building owner. I ended up getting a full refund and $5,000 in Airbnb credit. What she basically told me is to never book unless it is with a preferred host. Needless to say, I no longer would ever use Airbnb unless it’s in a ski resort, or something similar.
dgudkov 8y ago
>Airbnb immediately messaged me asking if I'd accept a full refund to take down my review. This is very unfair to future renters, breaks trust in the review system, and detrimental to AirBnb's business in general. Offering money in exchange for promise to take down a bad review is a very bad idea. Instead, the review should have remained with a note that a full refund was offered.
Gys 8y ago
I once used booking.com to book a hotel. The description did not match reality (it was a very expensive hotel, 'wifi everywhere' but in reality not in the restaurant). I complained with booking.com and they said the hotel would solve it, offer we something. They did not. So booking.com asked if it was solved to satisfaction, to which I replied 'no'. That was it. I never got a review request. Which they normally even send several reminders about. So I was unable to leave a bad review. The shadiness is everywhere. And we just accept this as a Brave New World.

lugg 8y ago

I thought Airbnb was supposed to cover the cost of your alternative accommodation in this scenario as well? If airbnb isn't giving you a full refund without removing a negative review just issue a charge back. No way they will fight it with that behavior on record.

stephencoyner 8y ago
They didn't offer even though I told them we went to a hotel and I've never heard of this before, so I didn't ask. But given how hard it was to get a refund, I wouldn't imagine they would have offered anything more. Thanks for sharing, good to know for future reference.
dillondoyle 8y ago
One should get a refund of the canceled booking but my last experience is they did NOT cover the extra cost of booking alternative hotel. Had a NYE reservation in London canceled hours before my flight. Had to get hotel rooms ( I brought my parents on the trip ). AirBnb support absolutely useless in rebooking (and no options, just one not close to similar listing repeating multiple times from different 'hosts'). What makes me so angry though was that a phone support agent told me they would give me 50% of a few days of the airbnb reservation cost to cover extra costs. I asked them to push too manager to cover full difference. But instead of offering to cover costs, over chat/email they claimed the phone person never made a promise and only paid me $85 (the difference was multiple thousands). I asked for the recording but they never responded. I looked into arbitration but the cost/benefit of my time wasted doesn't work out.
- ashelmire 8y ago
  Why not have your bank issue a chargeback? Takes like 5 minutes, never had any issues with it.
  - dillondoyle 8y ago
    Maybe I wasn't clear. I got a refund for the price of canceled airbnb. But I had to get two hotels rooms, same day over NYE. Which was an extra few thousand on top of the canceled amount. This is the contention, where someone no phone told me an amount but then in the end I only got $85.
    - ashelmire 8y ago
      Ah, thanks for the clarification, I misread it.
ibejoeb 8y ago
Just last month, Airbnb reneged on its offer to cover the cost of my alternative accommodations when they let me a place without running water. Then they had to audacity to charge me for the first night; "it's policy," they said. Spent perhaps 5 hours chasing down their agents who use pseudonyms, don't have phone numbers, and have no stake in the matter. Now they deal with American Express. Airbnb makes Uber look like Mr. Rogers.
- TAForObvReasons 8y ago
  Given that AirBnB is a YC company, maybe the best strategy is to use the Hacker News support channel? Other YC companies like CoinBase have notoriously bad customer support except for when posts reach the front page of Hacker News
  - ibejoeb 8y ago
    Even if that were something that I could do, it's terrible that the MO is to fuck the customer. * It turns out it was an illegal unit to begin with * The unit was uninhabitable and would be unable to get a CO even if it weren't otherwise illegal * The host wasn't a real person. It was a persona. * A third-party is facilitating the whole thing. That company is called Makomi (https://makomi.com/ https://makomi.com/) and makes its money operating illegal sublets in NYC. Everyone here is playing the arms-length game as if there is some kind of plausible deniability that they are not prima facie illegal, and then they pile on by being dodgy even on top of that. It's unfortunate, because when Airbnb works well, it's great, and when the slightest thing is wrong, it's donkey show.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - lugg 8y ago
      Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees the irony here?
      - 8y ago

jcoffland 8y ago

I've had Airbnb simply ghost my negative review. It shows up on my account but not on the rental page. I called Airbnb for an explanation they said it could take some time for the review to show up. It never did.

praptak 8y ago
You could post both screenshots somewhere public.
- atomical 8y ago
  Airbnb will probably terminate his account for doing that.
  - ashelmire 8y ago
    ...and nothing of value would be lost. A minor sacrifice to do good.
  - praptak 8y ago
    Then it would be HN front-page rage material. But I agree it's just a possibility, not a moral obligation.
    - atomical 8y ago
      No, seriously. There is a TOS against posting reviews outside of Airbnb. A medium blog post was posted here about it[0]. > I still can’t believe that leaving an offsite review was a bannable offense, but even more disturbing to me is the way AirBnB handled the situation with a one-sided, permanent, irreversible, closed book suspension. [0] https://medium.com/@jacksoncunningham/digital-exile-how-i-got-banned-for-life-from-airbnb-615434c6eeba https://medium.com/@jacksoncunningham/digital-exile-how-i-go...
      - praptak 8y ago
        You don't have to post the review itself, just a screenshot showing that it exists. Btw, thanks for posting this, this is valuable to everyone who considers using their services.

dillondoyle 8y ago

I've also had VERY bad airbnb experiences deteriorating over the last 1.5 years ever since their intention to IPO/make profit. I'm a frequent traveler (4+ months abroad a year) and most of that time was in airbnbs. I made a pact to never use again if I can help it from here out. I could give multiple examples/long stories. What's sad is the first many years using service were amazing! I will not be buying their stock post IPO (and avoid renting at all costs); I'd be curious to see if a short is sustainable because it seems like I'm not the only one, compounding with all these other problems.

alkonaut 8y ago

Why is it in AirBnB’s interest to help the fraud landlord? Isn’t it in their interest to get accurate reviews for bad properties to avoid having to refund again and again for the same place?

ashelmire 8y ago
Is it any surprise that a vc funded business is short sighted? They are interested in getting to an ipo, not building a sustainable business where their reputation matters. I actually think there’s a strong case that cultivated reviews (which are then displayed prominently next to product ads and sales pages) violates truth in advertising laws[1]. This is effectively the default in tech though; every company removes bad reviews because it’s in their financial interest in the short term. 1. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advert...
- alkonaut 8y ago
  But why is beneficial even for short term and valuation? Being the company known for fraud listings, lots of customers demanding refunds and so on can’t be better for growth and a future IPO than it would be if these (presumably quite rare) listings and their landlords were simply removed after refunding the renter?
  - ashelmire 8y ago
    Presumably because it's systemic and extremely costly to fix, so doing something about it would seriously damage their reported revenue and income, thus reducing their value at IPO. Somebody did the math and determined the damaged reputation would hurt them less than lower revenue for now.

pmart123 8y ago

I once took it upon myself to do an investigation after a terrible experience. Within 15 minutes I found that: 1. The building had numerous building code violations per NYC 2. The building owner had links to the Russian mob written up in Nytimes. I dealt with completely awful customer service. Like terrible from Airbnb. Hours on the phone dealing with idiots. I finally get someone who mattered after I cc’d my friend who was an editor at the WSJ threatening publication of the experience. She finally gets on the phone, and I’m like, “ever thing to check listings against building code records?” Her response, “Wow, that is a great idea! Why didn’t we think of that!” Ditto for criminal ties and records of the building owner. I ended up getting a full refund and $5,000 in Airbnb credit. What she basically told me is to never book unless it is with a preferred host. Needless to say, I no longer would ever use Airbnb unless it’s in a ski resort, or something similar.

dgudkov 8y ago

>Airbnb immediately messaged me asking if I'd accept a full refund to take down my review. This is very unfair to future renters, breaks trust in the review system, and detrimental to AirBnb's business in general. Offering money in exchange for promise to take down a bad review is a very bad idea. Instead, the review should have remained with a note that a full refund was offered.

Gys 8y ago

I once used booking.com to book a hotel. The description did not match reality (it was a very expensive hotel, 'wifi everywhere' but in reality not in the restaurant). I complained with booking.com and they said the hotel would solve it, offer we something. They did not. So booking.com asked if it was solved to satisfaction, to which I replied 'no'. That was it. I never got a review request. Which they normally even send several reminders about. So I was unable to leave a bad review. The shadiness is everywhere. And we just accept this as a Brave New World.