4 ms·

Not all homeless people are alike. The left only seems to see victims and the right only sees cheaters looking for a free ride. The truth IMO is a continuous

Not all homeless people are alike. The left only seems to see victims and the right only sees cheaters looking for a free ride. The truth IMO is a continuous distribution between those two extremes. And as long as the proposed solutions only target one tail or another, no progress will be made because of the other tail being ignored. This should be a solvable problem in my opinion we are a rich country and we can afford to feed and shelter everyone.

twblalock 8y ago
> This should be a solvable problem in my opinion we are a rich country and we can afford to feed and shelter everyone. The problem is figuring out what to do about the homeless people who refuse to accept shelter and other forms of government assistance. What are you going to do, arrest them? That's been tried in San Francisco and it went badly. If you force them to move they will set up camp somewhere else, so that doesn't really solve anything. A few years ago in San Jose there was a very large tent encampment called "The Jungle" with over 1000 people in it, and many of them were there by choice. They preferred the independence of living in the camp versus living in a shelter. In the camp they were free to own pets, smoke, consume alcohol, and do a bunch of other stuff that is not allowed in shelters but that most of us do in our homes on a regular basis.
- cheriot 8y ago
  > The problem is figuring out what to do about the homeless people who refuse to accept shelter and other forms of government assistance. Does San Francisco have shelter beds that are sitting empty? We just don't have that problem yet. The people refusing shelter are refusing to throw away all of their remaining possessions for the promise of a few nights inside and then getting kicked out.
  - twblalock 8y ago
    > The people refusing shelter are refusing to throw away all of their remaining possessions for the promise of a few nights inside and then getting kicked out. That's true for some. But there are many who would not accept a guaranteed permanent shelter bed because they prefer the freedom of living on their own. If you won't accept the reality of that, you'll never solve the problem.
    - debatem1 8y ago
      The solution is likely the same here as it is elsewhere: not a permanent shelter bed where you are stripped of dignity and any facsimile of a normal life, but real homes and real independent lives surrounded by real people and the social connections that make permanent escape from poverty possible. And all of it, ideally, before destitution rather than after. But that's expensive, so we will continue to see handwringing about the deplorable plight of the homeless while the glittering lives of the wealthy grow ever more gilded.
      - imtringued 8y ago
        Those shelters are only useful for sleeping (that's the only thing they were optimized for). The people that go there still don't have a place to call home. During the day the homeless go outside and will cause all the same issues that come with regular homelessness.
    - cheriot 8y ago
      Every shelter is full. Every mental health facility is full. The need for more of them is the most immediate problem to solve. > there are many who would not accept You're blaming people for how they would make a decision that they don't actually have. That's not dealing with reality.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- syshum 8y ago
  It is not a matter of "refusing shelter" it is a matter of refusing the strings that come with the Shelter. Like the story says most shelters have a litany of rules that most reasonable people would find objectionable. Some even require you to attend religious services, or preform some other act. Then you have the one that refuse pets (homeless people will not and should not have to give up their pets) then you have a Single Sex only shelters where couples would be split Then you have the fact that in many cities there is an extreme lack of Men's shelters as most of the funding goes to Women and Children shelters. I could probably list a dozen or more other facts more than "the damn homeless just refuse help"
  - twblalock 8y ago
    > I could probably list a dozen or more other facts more than "the damn homeless just refuse help" I never said that. It is an unfair misrepresentation of my argument.
    - syshum 8y ago
      Apologizes if that is not what you meant, I have been following this issue for many years and I have encountered a large number of people that shift the blame on to homeless themselves because they believe the current programs that are out there should be more than enough to solve the problem is the homeless would just "accept the help"
    - debatem1 8y ago
      Text is an imperfect medium etc, but for what it's worth this is what I read in your statement above as well.
  - XaoDaoCaoCao 8y ago
    My review of a Salvation Army shelter I stayed in https://goo.gl/maps/TpjnpVLgQPp https://goo.gl/maps/TpjnpVLgQPp There are good programs but man, it's become fucking business.
nixarian 8y ago
The cheaters are probably victims too. They learn that cheating is their best way to survive, so why wouldn't they? If they see no future, if they see nothing ahead of them, why wouldn't they cheat?

twblalock 8y ago

> This should be a solvable problem in my opinion we are a rich country and we can afford to feed and shelter everyone. The problem is figuring out what to do about the homeless people who refuse to accept shelter and other forms of government assistance. What are you going to do, arrest them? That's been tried in San Francisco and it went badly. If you force them to move they will set up camp somewhere else, so that doesn't really solve anything. A few years ago in San Jose there was a very large tent encampment called "The Jungle" with over 1000 people in it, and many of them were there by choice. They preferred the independence of living in the camp versus living in a shelter. In the camp they were free to own pets, smoke, consume alcohol, and do a bunch of other stuff that is not allowed in shelters but that most of us do in our homes on a regular basis.

cheriot 8y ago
> The problem is figuring out what to do about the homeless people who refuse to accept shelter and other forms of government assistance. Does San Francisco have shelter beds that are sitting empty? We just don't have that problem yet. The people refusing shelter are refusing to throw away all of their remaining possessions for the promise of a few nights inside and then getting kicked out.
- twblalock 8y ago
  > The people refusing shelter are refusing to throw away all of their remaining possessions for the promise of a few nights inside and then getting kicked out. That's true for some. But there are many who would not accept a guaranteed permanent shelter bed because they prefer the freedom of living on their own. If you won't accept the reality of that, you'll never solve the problem.
  - debatem1 8y ago
    The solution is likely the same here as it is elsewhere: not a permanent shelter bed where you are stripped of dignity and any facsimile of a normal life, but real homes and real independent lives surrounded by real people and the social connections that make permanent escape from poverty possible. And all of it, ideally, before destitution rather than after. But that's expensive, so we will continue to see handwringing about the deplorable plight of the homeless while the glittering lives of the wealthy grow ever more gilded.
    - imtringued 8y ago
      Those shelters are only useful for sleeping (that's the only thing they were optimized for). The people that go there still don't have a place to call home. During the day the homeless go outside and will cause all the same issues that come with regular homelessness.
  - cheriot 8y ago
    Every shelter is full. Every mental health facility is full. The need for more of them is the most immediate problem to solve. > there are many who would not accept You're blaming people for how they would make a decision that they don't actually have. That's not dealing with reality.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
syshum 8y ago
It is not a matter of "refusing shelter" it is a matter of refusing the strings that come with the Shelter. Like the story says most shelters have a litany of rules that most reasonable people would find objectionable. Some even require you to attend religious services, or preform some other act. Then you have the one that refuse pets (homeless people will not and should not have to give up their pets) then you have a Single Sex only shelters where couples would be split Then you have the fact that in many cities there is an extreme lack of Men's shelters as most of the funding goes to Women and Children shelters. I could probably list a dozen or more other facts more than "the damn homeless just refuse help"
- twblalock 8y ago
  > I could probably list a dozen or more other facts more than "the damn homeless just refuse help" I never said that. It is an unfair misrepresentation of my argument.
  - syshum 8y ago
    Apologizes if that is not what you meant, I have been following this issue for many years and I have encountered a large number of people that shift the blame on to homeless themselves because they believe the current programs that are out there should be more than enough to solve the problem is the homeless would just "accept the help"
  - debatem1 8y ago
    Text is an imperfect medium etc, but for what it's worth this is what I read in your statement above as well.
- XaoDaoCaoCao 8y ago
  My review of a Salvation Army shelter I stayed in https://goo.gl/maps/TpjnpVLgQPp https://goo.gl/maps/TpjnpVLgQPp There are good programs but man, it's become fucking business.

nixarian 8y ago

The cheaters are probably victims too. They learn that cheating is their best way to survive, so why wouldn't they? If they see no future, if they see nothing ahead of them, why wouldn't they cheat?