4 ms·

"If some immaterial detail like this was so grossly wrong, what else is wrong?" Most likely everything. That is why any information that isn't reproducible sho

by kgwxd 8y ago

"If some immaterial detail like this was so grossly wrong, what else is wrong?" Most likely everything. That is why any information that isn't reproducible should be considered just a story, nothing more. There might be some value to take away from it, but nothing much better than what you can get from fiction. I don't get how anyone that has played Telephone can take history seriously, there's just no chance of getting an accurate version. Even news from yesterday, with recorded audio and video, doesn't capture enough to get important details right.

Dylan16807 8y ago
"Don't even try to know" is a pretty bad mindset to apply to every event that has ever happened.
bostik 8y ago
Well, there are three truths. 1. What really happened. 2. How the people involved remember it. 3. How it gets recorded. The potential for gross distortion between steps is a fact, but that doesn't necessarily mean everything you read or hear is false. And indeed, details are the first thing to get twisted. It's usually (or, "often enough") the major themes that survive. Assuming that everything is a lie means you're paranoid. Assuming that everybody lies means you're sensible. How truth survives through that is left as an exercise for the reader.
- hopler 8y ago
  Considering the major themes that the majority of humanity believes in are the various flavors of Biblical ones, I don't have a lot of hope for Truth. Ultimately, if you can't verify a fact yourself, it's either irrelevant (so doesn't matter if it's true, just have fun) or highly suspect.
peterburkimsher 8y ago
"just a story" is still important if there's a lesson to learn. Whether we're discussing Aesop's fables or religion, there are a lot of stories with real-life application. Reading the article made me feel deflated, powerless about the spread of disinformation. But mindcrime's top-level comment told me what to do (risk my life to help others), and the story made me imagine a situation when I could do that. Even though I now know the story isn't true, the way I would apply the lesson is still the same. Having read the comment and thought about how my actions can change in the future, I now feel hopeful. I'm grateful for this community for providing that.
- mindcrime 8y ago
  But mindcrime's top-level comment told me what to do (risk my life to help others), and the story made me imagine a situation when I could do that. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be prescriptive here. I don't mean to tell you to go out and look for a chance to die young by risking your life. And even among trained emergency responders, there's a constant need to remind people in training to not develop "hero complex" and wind up risking yourself needlessly. Even firefighters do have situations where they opt for "discretion as the better part of valor." All I intend to say is that those people who, when presented with an emergency situation, elect to put themselves in harms way for the sake of others, earn - in my mind - a certain measure of nobility and special esteem. But I don't want to encourage people to put themselves in danger when they really aren't prepared / equipped to help. I know that seems like a subtle distinction, but I'd encourage everyone to keep it in mind. A heroic death may be noble, but it's still a death. And every death is a tragedy for someone. Wives, husbands, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, friends, etc. may feel terrific pride in such an event, but they'll also feel terrible pain.
- hopler 8y ago
  If the story just false, than the moral may well be the opposite of good advice. Just in this thread, we have competing advice of "being a hero matters more than being right" vs "trying to be a hero creates another victim to rescue, harming who you are trying to help"

by kgwxd 8y ago

Dylan16807 8y ago

"Don't even try to know" is a pretty bad mindset to apply to every event that has ever happened.

bostik 8y ago

Well, there are three truths. 1. What really happened. 2. How the people involved remember it. 3. How it gets recorded. The potential for gross distortion between steps is a fact, but that doesn't necessarily mean everything you read or hear is false. And indeed, details are the first thing to get twisted. It's usually (or, "often enough") the major themes that survive. Assuming that everything is a lie means you're paranoid. Assuming that everybody lies means you're sensible. How truth survives through that is left as an exercise for the reader.

hopler 8y ago
Considering the major themes that the majority of humanity believes in are the various flavors of Biblical ones, I don't have a lot of hope for Truth. Ultimately, if you can't verify a fact yourself, it's either irrelevant (so doesn't matter if it's true, just have fun) or highly suspect.

peterburkimsher 8y ago

"just a story" is still important if there's a lesson to learn. Whether we're discussing Aesop's fables or religion, there are a lot of stories with real-life application. Reading the article made me feel deflated, powerless about the spread of disinformation. But mindcrime's top-level comment told me what to do (risk my life to help others), and the story made me imagine a situation when I could do that. Even though I now know the story isn't true, the way I would apply the lesson is still the same. Having read the comment and thought about how my actions can change in the future, I now feel hopeful. I'm grateful for this community for providing that.

mindcrime 8y ago
But mindcrime's top-level comment told me what to do (risk my life to help others), and the story made me imagine a situation when I could do that. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be prescriptive here. I don't mean to tell you to go out and look for a chance to die young by risking your life. And even among trained emergency responders, there's a constant need to remind people in training to not develop "hero complex" and wind up risking yourself needlessly. Even firefighters do have situations where they opt for "discretion as the better part of valor." All I intend to say is that those people who, when presented with an emergency situation, elect to put themselves in harms way for the sake of others, earn - in my mind - a certain measure of nobility and special esteem. But I don't want to encourage people to put themselves in danger when they really aren't prepared / equipped to help. I know that seems like a subtle distinction, but I'd encourage everyone to keep it in mind. A heroic death may be noble, but it's still a death. And every death is a tragedy for someone. Wives, husbands, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, friends, etc. may feel terrific pride in such an event, but they'll also feel terrible pain.
hopler 8y ago
If the story just false, than the moral may well be the opposite of good advice. Just in this thread, we have competing advice of "being a hero matters more than being right" vs "trying to be a hero creates another victim to rescue, harming who you are trying to help"