10 ms·

Not commenting on the specific numbers, but maybe it shouldn’t be surprising that a year of college costs less than food, housing, healthcare, security, and pro

Not commenting on the specific numbers, but maybe it shouldn’t be surprising that a year of college costs less than food, housing, healthcare, security, and programs combined?

YinLuck- 8y ago
Have you been to an American college campus any time this century? Literally every item you mentioned is provided as part of the (on campus) tuition price. At many schools, you can't even opt out selectively even if you want to! They require you to buy the meal plan!
chess93 8y ago
Universities have all of those things. 75k would easily cover tuition, meal plan, dorms/off campus living, university insurance policies, campus security, extracurricular programs, etc.
- mruts 8y ago
  I don’t think campus security is responsible for keeping students on campus and organizing manhunts if they escape. Comparing college with prison is patently ridiculeous. Why would someone expect that keeping someone incarcerated be cheap?
  - jMyles 8y ago
    > Comparing college with prison is patently ridiculeous. The point is that they are different possible futures for a given individual. The matter of which of these two possibilities comes to fruition depends on policy and on that individual's conduct. To the degree that it's determined by policy, it makes sense to restrict incarceration such that it is used at most in the limited situations in which there is societal benefit. Drug prohibition, for example, does not achieve this, but as a policy is responsible for a huge portion of the costs of incarceration.
- roenxi 8y ago
  Universities also don't require the same level of 24 hour surveillance, and have a more cooperative crowd that can look after themselves. It seems reasonable to a first approximation that they would have similar costs.
  - 0xfaded 8y ago
    In my opinion you have used a convenient generalization for prison populations which helps justify their treatment by dehumanising them. An alternative view. Universities: 18 year olds moving out of home for the first time. Prison Population: Many from unfortunate circumstances and have been fending for themselves long before 18.
  - benj111 8y ago
    Maybe similar costs. I don't think the major driver of Harvard pricing has anything to do with its costs though.
TelmoMenezes 8y ago
As a non-American, what I find mostly surprising are these two things: 1) that a society that mostly believes that a system of private businesses competing in a free market is the be all and end all of optimal resource allocation end up having the most expensive health care, higher education and apparently, prison system in the world; that this fact does not trigger more thought and discussion; 2) that despite incarcerating people being more expensive than sending them to Harvard, you still favor punishment over prevention and rehabilitation, having the highest incarceration ratio in the world.
- throwaway13337 8y ago
  1. None of the things you listed are anywhere near a free market in the US. You've created a compelling argument against government intervention, actually. 2. I agree with the second point. The US government officially does, too. Prison should be about rehabilitation and not retribution. It's just that the government doesn't act like it agrees.
  - fxj 8y ago
    If this is a compelling argument against gouvernment intervention, then why does it work so much better in europe where all three sectors are state-owned? The best example is switzerland, where the costs are a fraction of the costs in the U.S ( and which is not a "socialist" country at all).
    - pfisch 8y ago
      Switzerland doesn't lead the world in pharmaceutical development. Our health system has been captured by special interests specifically because we have let it grow so big. Whenever I bring up this point I see downvotes. What I would love instead is a counter example of a country whose largest economic sectors do not capture the government and then have a huge hand in dictating policy in those sectors. Our government intervention in the education market with student loans is just an awful system that encourages prices to continue to rise.
coldtea 8y ago
When it comes to prison, it's more like: "food", "housing", "healthcare" and "security".
ratsimihah 8y ago
How interesting to witness common sense in a non-sensical world.
Udik 8y ago
Most Americans earn less than $75k, and they still have much nicer housing, food, healthcare, plus shopping, trips, etc.
SilasX 8y ago
I would also add that if you actually took the kind of person who's in a CA prison, and asked Harvard how much you'd have to pay for them to accept such a student, it would probably require a bigger donation on top of the $75k/year.
adrianmonk 8y ago
It's an apples and oranges comparison in the first place. There are security expenses related to prison populations. You need staff, facilities, equipment, etc. to manage prisoners behavior (prevent fights, etc.) and keep them from escaping. The two things have a different mission, so of course they're going to have different costs. It's like saying a refrigerator is more expensive than a microwave. It doesn't mean anything because they do different things.

Not commenting on the specific numbers, but maybe it shouldn’t be surprising that a year of college costs less than food, housing, healthcare, security, and programs combined?

YinLuck- 8y ago

Have you been to an American college campus any time this century? Literally every item you mentioned is provided as part of the (on campus) tuition price. At many schools, you can't even opt out selectively even if you want to! They require you to buy the meal plan!

chess93 8y ago

Universities have all of those things. 75k would easily cover tuition, meal plan, dorms/off campus living, university insurance policies, campus security, extracurricular programs, etc.

mruts 8y ago
I don’t think campus security is responsible for keeping students on campus and organizing manhunts if they escape. Comparing college with prison is patently ridiculeous. Why would someone expect that keeping someone incarcerated be cheap?
- jMyles 8y ago
  > Comparing college with prison is patently ridiculeous. The point is that they are different possible futures for a given individual. The matter of which of these two possibilities comes to fruition depends on policy and on that individual's conduct. To the degree that it's determined by policy, it makes sense to restrict incarceration such that it is used at most in the limited situations in which there is societal benefit. Drug prohibition, for example, does not achieve this, but as a policy is responsible for a huge portion of the costs of incarceration.
roenxi 8y ago
Universities also don't require the same level of 24 hour surveillance, and have a more cooperative crowd that can look after themselves. It seems reasonable to a first approximation that they would have similar costs.
- 0xfaded 8y ago
  In my opinion you have used a convenient generalization for prison populations which helps justify their treatment by dehumanising them. An alternative view. Universities: 18 year olds moving out of home for the first time. Prison Population: Many from unfortunate circumstances and have been fending for themselves long before 18.
- benj111 8y ago
  Maybe similar costs. I don't think the major driver of Harvard pricing has anything to do with its costs though.

TelmoMenezes 8y ago

As a non-American, what I find mostly surprising are these two things: 1) that a society that mostly believes that a system of private businesses competing in a free market is the be all and end all of optimal resource allocation end up having the most expensive health care, higher education and apparently, prison system in the world; that this fact does not trigger more thought and discussion; 2) that despite incarcerating people being more expensive than sending them to Harvard, you still favor punishment over prevention and rehabilitation, having the highest incarceration ratio in the world.

throwaway13337 8y ago
1. None of the things you listed are anywhere near a free market in the US. You've created a compelling argument against government intervention, actually. 2. I agree with the second point. The US government officially does, too. Prison should be about rehabilitation and not retribution. It's just that the government doesn't act like it agrees.
- fxj 8y ago
  If this is a compelling argument against gouvernment intervention, then why does it work so much better in europe where all three sectors are state-owned? The best example is switzerland, where the costs are a fraction of the costs in the U.S ( and which is not a "socialist" country at all).
  - pfisch 8y ago
    Switzerland doesn't lead the world in pharmaceutical development. Our health system has been captured by special interests specifically because we have let it grow so big. Whenever I bring up this point I see downvotes. What I would love instead is a counter example of a country whose largest economic sectors do not capture the government and then have a huge hand in dictating policy in those sectors. Our government intervention in the education market with student loans is just an awful system that encourages prices to continue to rise.

coldtea 8y ago

When it comes to prison, it's more like: "food", "housing", "healthcare" and "security".

ratsimihah 8y ago

How interesting to witness common sense in a non-sensical world.

Udik 8y ago

Most Americans earn less than $75k, and they still have much nicer housing, food, healthcare, plus shopping, trips, etc.

SilasX 8y ago

I would also add that if you actually took the kind of person who's in a CA prison, and asked Harvard how much you'd have to pay for them to accept such a student, it would probably require a bigger donation on top of the $75k/year.

adrianmonk 8y ago

It's an apples and oranges comparison in the first place. There are security expenses related to prison populations. You need staff, facilities, equipment, etc. to manage prisoners behavior (prevent fights, etc.) and keep them from escaping. The two things have a different mission, so of course they're going to have different costs. It's like saying a refrigerator is more expensive than a microwave. It doesn't mean anything because they do different things.