4 ms·

She's tried everything except actual leadership. The reason her political career is over is that's she's an ineffective leader. These sorts of situations are t

She's tried everything except actual leadership. The reason her political career is over is that's she's an ineffective leader. These sorts of situations are the very definition of what leadership is for. The fact it's nigh an impossible situation is partly due to the path she has chosen and her relative incompetence in her job. You can feel for her and that's fine, but at the end of the day responsibility to get the job done falls to her and she has not delivered. There are no excuses.

tomp 8y ago
What would have been a better path (honest question)?
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  Building a deliverable, realistic consensus approach with cross-party support, reflecting the relatively close outcome of the initial referendum and the diversity of opinion within the "leave" movement.
  - tomp 8y ago
    But that's my question, what's a "realistic consensus"? Mind you, consensus within the UK isn't enough, you need consensus with the EU as well - and I don't think anything better than the current deal is even possible.
    - matthewmacleod 8y ago
      But that's my question, what's a "realistic consensus"? It's really the prime minister's job to build this based on working cross-party, but an obvious example might be a relatively close Norway-style relationship, which would be much more likely to receive opposition support. I don't think anything better than the current deal is even possible This is again just absolutely false.
    - jlokier 8y ago
      The EU are (or would have been) open to other models than the one TM settled on. They have suggested they would be open to alternatives when Corbyn approached them earlier this year. If a general election or new referendum had taken place, I think the EU would have granted an extension to hear what new alternative would emerge. They are saying TM's deal is the only deal now, but that's because it was negotiated exhaustively in private already, and TM told them, essentially, she would take it to the MPs to get it rubber-stamped. The MPs said no, it's their job, not hers, to hash out the big important compromises for the country, she should have consulted them before getting to that point and they don't like the deal she made, and they rejected it with the strongest defeat in parliamentary history. The problem is leaving consensus building so late, so the EU spent all their negotiating efforts on TM's version of things, and they don't want to negotiate twice (unless a really good reason shows up that lines up with their principles).
      - tomp 8y ago
        > They have suggested they would be open to alternatives when Corbyn approached them earlier this year. Ah, that's news to me. Do you have any more info, like an article explaining the potential alternative models?
- pjc50 8y ago
  If there was ever to be a workable Brexit it should have been driven by a Leaver. Theresa May was not a Leave campaigner before the referendum, just an anti-immigrant Home Secretary. She therefore adopted the anti-free-movement position, which condemns the UK to being outside the free trade area, and completely blows up the Ireland situation. What "should" have happened is one of Johnson, Davis, or Gove running it. Or, after the Tory Party elected a Remain leader, she should have stayed Remain and run a GE on that basis. If people wanted Leave they would have had to vote in UKIP.
  - ben_w 8y ago
    I think those three would have failed just as hard. IMO, whoever was in charge, it should have been done like this: 1. Nationwide consultations about type of Brexit; 2. Determine best fit; 3. Work out negotiation objectives and fallback plans; 4. Then invoke A50.

tomp 8y ago

What would have been a better path (honest question)?

matthewmacleod 8y ago
Building a deliverable, realistic consensus approach with cross-party support, reflecting the relatively close outcome of the initial referendum and the diversity of opinion within the "leave" movement.
- tomp 8y ago
  But that's my question, what's a "realistic consensus"? Mind you, consensus within the UK isn't enough, you need consensus with the EU as well - and I don't think anything better than the current deal is even possible.
  - matthewmacleod 8y ago
    But that's my question, what's a "realistic consensus"? It's really the prime minister's job to build this based on working cross-party, but an obvious example might be a relatively close Norway-style relationship, which would be much more likely to receive opposition support. I don't think anything better than the current deal is even possible This is again just absolutely false.
  - jlokier 8y ago
    The EU are (or would have been) open to other models than the one TM settled on. They have suggested they would be open to alternatives when Corbyn approached them earlier this year. If a general election or new referendum had taken place, I think the EU would have granted an extension to hear what new alternative would emerge. They are saying TM's deal is the only deal now, but that's because it was negotiated exhaustively in private already, and TM told them, essentially, she would take it to the MPs to get it rubber-stamped. The MPs said no, it's their job, not hers, to hash out the big important compromises for the country, she should have consulted them before getting to that point and they don't like the deal she made, and they rejected it with the strongest defeat in parliamentary history. The problem is leaving consensus building so late, so the EU spent all their negotiating efforts on TM's version of things, and they don't want to negotiate twice (unless a really good reason shows up that lines up with their principles).
    - tomp 8y ago
      > They have suggested they would be open to alternatives when Corbyn approached them earlier this year. Ah, that's news to me. Do you have any more info, like an article explaining the potential alternative models?
pjc50 8y ago
If there was ever to be a workable Brexit it should have been driven by a Leaver. Theresa May was not a Leave campaigner before the referendum, just an anti-immigrant Home Secretary. She therefore adopted the anti-free-movement position, which condemns the UK to being outside the free trade area, and completely blows up the Ireland situation. What "should" have happened is one of Johnson, Davis, or Gove running it. Or, after the Tory Party elected a Remain leader, she should have stayed Remain and run a GE on that basis. If people wanted Leave they would have had to vote in UKIP.
- ben_w 8y ago
  I think those three would have failed just as hard. IMO, whoever was in charge, it should have been done like this: 1. Nationwide consultations about type of Brexit; 2. Determine best fit; 3. Work out negotiation objectives and fallback plans; 4. Then invoke A50.