3 ms·

>Hills are the primary use case for electric buses already (electric has much better torque) A typical fairly modern city bus is geared to top out at low highw

>Hills are the primary use case for electric buses already (electric has much better torque) A typical fairly modern city bus is geared to top out at low highway speed. Having the maximum amount of acceleration is possible for a vehicle that is pulling in and out of traffic all day which is why they are geared so low. Buses will happily roast the tires from a stop (an impressive sight, I highly recommend) if not electronically prevented from doing so peak power is basically available as fast as the transmission can shift down a gear or two. Acceleration in practice is primarily limited by the cargo's propensity to complain and secondarily by the coefficient of friction between the tires and the ground. Regardless of EV vs ICE these limitations are going to result in electronic controls that prevent the driver from getting an instant response when the hammer the throttle it Maybe on a long, hill climb near top speed you'd run out of power but that's a peak power limitation issue and EVs will have it too. Commercial people movers are only ever lacking for power when they are intentionally spec'd out that way. The "muh torque" circle jerk really isn't an advantage of EVs except when you're intentionally making a lopsided comparison (Model S vs Civic). Besides, as much as I'd love to see a bus twist and lift up a front tire leaving a stop I assure you the average person does not want to be subject to that kind of acceleration so both the EV bus and the ICE bus are going to get an electronic nanny between the go pedal and the power source.

seanmcdirmid 8y ago
Have you seen Seattle hills before? Yes, you can service them with diesel if you have to, but ride times suffer, and it’s a very crappy ride. San Francisco uses trolley buses for similar hill routes as well, as does almost every city with hills outside of the USA. This has been known well before EVs became a thing, since the 1940s at least. Since battery tech wasn’t good enough, they were powered by overhead lines instead.
magduf 8y ago
You're completely ignoring the efficiency aspect. ICEs simply cannot compete with EVs when operating at low and variable speeds: the EV will get far better overall energy efficiency. Sure, you can get a lot of torque from a diesel engine by gearing it down, but you're just not going to get very good efficiency when it's constantly braking and accelerating at low speeds. And electric motors develop peak torque at stall; ICEs always have to use clutches or torque convertors to avoid a stall, and their peak torque is very high in the rev range, so you need an even bigger engine when operating at low speeds primarily. There's only one deficiency with EVs compared to ICEs, and that's energy storage. On every other metric, they easily win.

seanmcdirmid 8y ago

Have you seen Seattle hills before? Yes, you can service them with diesel if you have to, but ride times suffer, and it’s a very crappy ride. San Francisco uses trolley buses for similar hill routes as well, as does almost every city with hills outside of the USA. This has been known well before EVs became a thing, since the 1940s at least. Since battery tech wasn’t good enough, they were powered by overhead lines instead.

magduf 8y ago

You're completely ignoring the efficiency aspect. ICEs simply cannot compete with EVs when operating at low and variable speeds: the EV will get far better overall energy efficiency. Sure, you can get a lot of torque from a diesel engine by gearing it down, but you're just not going to get very good efficiency when it's constantly braking and accelerating at low speeds. And electric motors develop peak torque at stall; ICEs always have to use clutches or torque convertors to avoid a stall, and their peak torque is very high in the rev range, so you need an even bigger engine when operating at low speeds primarily. There's only one deficiency with EVs compared to ICEs, and that's energy storage. On every other metric, they easily win.