5 ms·

Source?

by tomnm 8y ago

Source?

ehmish 8y ago
It's mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-North_Shelter_Forest_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-North_Shelter_Forest_Pro..., but the cited reference to it is in "The Epoch Times", which from what I've seen has quite an ideological bent against china, so I'd take it with a grain of salt
Flollop 8y ago
https://e360.yale.edu/features/chinas_reforestation_programs_big_success_or_just_an_illusion https://e360.yale.edu/features/chinas_reforestation_programs... Not only that, there are concerns around lack of biodiversity in the trees being planted: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160907125303.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160907125303.h...
- sdrothrock 8y ago
  I've often wondered if those programs would eventually lead to widespread allergies developing among the population due to the rapid increase in a single kind of pollen, like Japanese hay fever: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hay_fever_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hay_fever_in_Japan
- macleginn 8y ago
  It is a common concern with reforestation, it seems: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/this-is-load-of-crap-forestry-miles-upon-miles-of-it-everything-is-dead-in-there-1.3825661 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/this-is-load-of-...
  - paganel 8y ago
    It is a problem with reforestation since its very beginning, not sure why China is singled out here for repeating the West’s mistakes.
    - benj111 8y ago
      Is China getting singled out? The West tried it, not knowing because it had never been done before, and found it had issues. I would expect the West to be criticised as much, if not more so for doing the same thing today.
      - paganel 8y ago
        It looked like a surprise for some posters here, yeah, they seem to didn’t know that the same has been happening in the West since as early as the late 1700s-early 1800s and I’d say it’s still happening. The West is not being criticized as much as it should today for repeating the same mistake it has been doing again and again for almost two centuries now. Later edit: This forest which got knocked out during a recent wind-storm in the Italian Dolomites [1] looks like being an "artificial" one, at least judging by how the remaining trees all look the same and are almost geometrically positioned. The article does indeed say that the forest was "centuries-old" but I think that only better underlines what I was saying, that the West has been repeating the same and same mistake (i.e. "dumb", non-thought out reforestation) for centuries now. It's too bad that with the recent climate-related changes our tampering with the ecosystem is really shown for what it is: a really, really dumb and non-thought out action. [1] https://www.italymagazine.com/news/storms-italys-dolomites-raze-centuries-old-forests https://www.italymagazine.com/news/storms-italys-dolomites-r...
        benj111 8y ago
        The Irish Times article is highly critical of the West doing the same today. What's the difference between that and the Yale 360 article linked further above? Edit: In response to your edit. Are you sure that isn't native woodland? I would expect the higher reaches of a mountain to be pine trees. The article mentions Stradivarius, violins are made of spruce amongst other woods. Plus those forests are obviously somewhat sustainable, the Chinese plantings are dying within a few years.
        paganel 8y ago
        > Are you sure that isn't native woodland? Hard to tell 100% without being present on site but that's my guess, yeah. I've very rarely seen "natural" forests being completely wiped out like this as a result of strong winds, the worst that can happen is some older trees being knocked down here and there, but, as I said, I've not yet seen "natural" forests being completely knocked down as a result of one wind-storm. I also suspect those were planted forests because you cannot use that wood as raw material for Venice's Arsenal for centuries past without planting something in return. I suspect the planting continued even after the Arsenal itself and wood-shipping in general were no longer a thing.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
It actually says as much in the article linked by grand parent, but I also remember reading about it a few years ago in china daily or globaltimes (probably the latter), so it has been brought up in the Chinese press as well. Anecdotally as well: I was living in Beijing during the entire time period and noticed the dust storms going away and then coming back. Fun story: Beijing kids are all required to plant trees on school organized trips (which they must also pay to plant). So they go to places in the hinterland that are designated for tree planting, and plant their trees. After each school group leaves, the trees are promptly dug out so they can be planted by the next group of kids.
- schuke 8y ago
  I remember reading a Caixin article that says the plant they use in the north to fight desertification actually causes massive allergy to the population that are traditionally pretty healthy.
- MisterTea 8y ago
  > After each school group leaves, the trees are promptly dug out so they can be planted by the next group of kids. Green theater.
austincheney 8y ago
As a blanket rule I down vote any comment that asks for a source without providing anything of value to the conversation. If you want a source go look for one or claim you had looked for one and could not find it.

Source?

by tomnm 8y ago

Source?

It's mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-North_Shelter_Forest_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-North_Shelter_Forest_Pro..., but the cited reference to it is in "The Epoch Times", which from what I've seen has quite an ideological bent against china, so I'd take it with a grain of salt

Flollop 8y ago

https://e360.yale.edu/features/chinas_reforestation_programs_big_success_or_just_an_illusion https://e360.yale.edu/features/chinas_reforestation_programs... Not only that, there are concerns around lack of biodiversity in the trees being planted: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160907125303.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160907125303.h...

sdrothrock 8y ago
I've often wondered if those programs would eventually lead to widespread allergies developing among the population due to the rapid increase in a single kind of pollen, like Japanese hay fever: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hay_fever_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hay_fever_in_Japan
macleginn 8y ago
It is a common concern with reforestation, it seems: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/this-is-load-of-crap-forestry-miles-upon-miles-of-it-everything-is-dead-in-there-1.3825661 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/this-is-load-of-...
- paganel 8y ago
  It is a problem with reforestation since its very beginning, not sure why China is singled out here for repeating the West’s mistakes.
  - benj111 8y ago
    Is China getting singled out? The West tried it, not knowing because it had never been done before, and found it had issues. I would expect the West to be criticised as much, if not more so for doing the same thing today.
    - paganel 8y ago
      It looked like a surprise for some posters here, yeah, they seem to didn’t know that the same has been happening in the West since as early as the late 1700s-early 1800s and I’d say it’s still happening. The West is not being criticized as much as it should today for repeating the same mistake it has been doing again and again for almost two centuries now. Later edit: This forest which got knocked out during a recent wind-storm in the Italian Dolomites [1] looks like being an "artificial" one, at least judging by how the remaining trees all look the same and are almost geometrically positioned. The article does indeed say that the forest was "centuries-old" but I think that only better underlines what I was saying, that the West has been repeating the same and same mistake (i.e. "dumb", non-thought out reforestation) for centuries now. It's too bad that with the recent climate-related changes our tampering with the ecosystem is really shown for what it is: a really, really dumb and non-thought out action. [1] https://www.italymagazine.com/news/storms-italys-dolomites-raze-centuries-old-forests https://www.italymagazine.com/news/storms-italys-dolomites-r...
      - benj111 8y ago
        The Irish Times article is highly critical of the West doing the same today. What's the difference between that and the Yale 360 article linked further above? Edit: In response to your edit. Are you sure that isn't native woodland? I would expect the higher reaches of a mountain to be pine trees. The article mentions Stradivarius, violins are made of spruce amongst other woods. Plus those forests are obviously somewhat sustainable, the Chinese plantings are dying within a few years.
        paganel 8y ago
        > Are you sure that isn't native woodland? Hard to tell 100% without being present on site but that's my guess, yeah. I've very rarely seen "natural" forests being completely wiped out like this as a result of strong winds, the worst that can happen is some older trees being knocked down here and there, but, as I said, I've not yet seen "natural" forests being completely knocked down as a result of one wind-storm. I also suspect those were planted forests because you cannot use that wood as raw material for Venice's Arsenal for centuries past without planting something in return. I suspect the planting continued even after the Arsenal itself and wood-shipping in general were no longer a thing.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

seanmcdirmid 8y ago

It actually says as much in the article linked by grand parent, but I also remember reading about it a few years ago in china daily or globaltimes (probably the latter), so it has been brought up in the Chinese press as well. Anecdotally as well: I was living in Beijing during the entire time period and noticed the dust storms going away and then coming back. Fun story: Beijing kids are all required to plant trees on school organized trips (which they must also pay to plant). So they go to places in the hinterland that are designated for tree planting, and plant their trees. After each school group leaves, the trees are promptly dug out so they can be planted by the next group of kids.

schuke 8y ago
I remember reading a Caixin article that says the plant they use in the north to fight desertification actually causes massive allergy to the population that are traditionally pretty healthy.
MisterTea 8y ago
> After each school group leaves, the trees are promptly dug out so they can be planted by the next group of kids. Green theater.

austincheney 8y ago

As a blanket rule I down vote any comment that asks for a source without providing anything of value to the conversation. If you want a source go look for one or claim you had looked for one and could not find it.