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> it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence Applets, JavaBeans, and CORBA. What a loss. > Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a r

> it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence Applets, JavaBeans, and CORBA. What a loss. > Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, That stopped being an issue years ago. OpenJDK is a thing, you know? > Java on the web is dead, I don't think you have any idea about the hundreds of millions of lines of Java that power the web as you know it today. The rest of your post is filled with equally uninformed claims but I'm going to stop here.

_bxg1 8y ago
> Java on the web is dead, >> I don't think you have any idea about the hundreds of millions of lines of Java that power the web as you know it today. Presumably they meant Java in the client, not the server.
- jimbokun 8y ago
  "Presumably they meant Java in the client" Android?
  - willbw 8y ago
    They are talking about his https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_applet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_applet Which were absolutely everywhere at the turn of century.
    - jimbokun 8y ago
      So, yeah...if you are only thinking about web applets, which died over 20 years ago, and ignoring Android, which runs on most of the world's phones, I see why you might think "Java is dead."
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Thanks to WebAssembly it is back. http://teavm.org/ http://teavm.org/
  - _bxg1 8y ago
    The web client specifically
ilovecaching 8y ago
Java on the web is a reference to applets running in the browser. Yes, Oracle, the company that sues people for breathing the same air owning Java is an issue. Maybe I am uninformed, but you haven't made a good case that there's any truth to that.
- jm4 8y ago
  Do you know anything about Java? I'm not trying to be insulting. Java has its problems, but your points are so far off the mark. Applets haven't been a thing for 20 years and I'm not sure they were a thing then either. Do you know people make web apps in Java and there's a ton of quality open source libraries out there?
  - ilovecaching 8y ago
    I developed Java (Swing, Spring, JavaFX), managed tomcat deployments, good stuff. I think my question is, do most Java developers really know what goes outside of their window? Every language has a good story for web apps these days. The web is ubiquitous. You can write in Phoenix, Cowboy, Rails, Sinatra, Express, "net/http", Django, Laravel, Flask, Rocket... Java is literally middle of the pack at best. So that's not a compelling reason to use Java. So then we have to look at the rest of Java. Is there anything else in there that would make it better for web dev than a simple Go/Ruby/Python/Javascript/Rust/Elixir app? No? Ok, then let's not use Java. Java excels at being mediocre at everything, but the best at nothing.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      We rather enjoy the state of the art IDEs, JIT and GC compilers from Java and .NET, while slowly enjoying watching hipster startups rewrite their stacks when customers come flooding in. Ask Twitter how their Rails apps is holding on.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - jacques_chester 8y ago
twic 8y ago
I liked CORBA! I'll take it over whatever lackadaisical JSON silliness we have today.
- rb808 8y ago
  Amen. Its a sad state of affairs when the middleware we had 25 years ago was faster and more robust that what we have now.
user5994461 8y ago
>>> That stopped being an issue years ago. OpenJDK is a thing, you know? Well, that's seeing the glass half full. OpenJDK was complete garbage in the java 6-7 era, less than 5 years ago. Pretty much every major java software was requiring to install the Oracle JDK. Nobody would accept a bug or a support issue if it happened with the OpenJDK, which was the first question to be asked. And that wasn't fear mongering, java applications that worked perfectly fine just didn't work on the OpenJDK. It is better now. I personally haven't seen an OpenJDK JVM crash in a while.
- erikdared 8y ago
  Yeah this was a problem for 6 & 7, but I've run plenty of code in production on OpenJDK 8 without issue. I think Java 8 was the first version where OpenJDK was the reference implementation so that likely helped a great deal.
orangecat 8y ago
That stopped being an issue years ago. OpenJDK is a thing, you know? If Oracle's ridiculous interpretation of API copyrights holds up, they have a kill switch for OpenJDK.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Just like Google's ridiculous interpretation of the licenses of others being worthless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYw3X4RZv6Y&feature=youtu.be&t=57m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYw3X4RZv6Y&feature=youtu.be...

_bxg1 8y ago

> Java on the web is dead, >> I don't think you have any idea about the hundreds of millions of lines of Java that power the web as you know it today. Presumably they meant Java in the client, not the server.

jimbokun 8y ago
"Presumably they meant Java in the client" Android?
- willbw 8y ago
  They are talking about his https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_applet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_applet Which were absolutely everywhere at the turn of century.
  - jimbokun 8y ago
    So, yeah...if you are only thinking about web applets, which died over 20 years ago, and ignoring Android, which runs on most of the world's phones, I see why you might think "Java is dead."
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Thanks to WebAssembly it is back. http://teavm.org/ http://teavm.org/
- _bxg1 8y ago
  The web client specifically

ilovecaching 8y ago

Java on the web is a reference to applets running in the browser. Yes, Oracle, the company that sues people for breathing the same air owning Java is an issue. Maybe I am uninformed, but you haven't made a good case that there's any truth to that.

jm4 8y ago
Do you know anything about Java? I'm not trying to be insulting. Java has its problems, but your points are so far off the mark. Applets haven't been a thing for 20 years and I'm not sure they were a thing then either. Do you know people make web apps in Java and there's a ton of quality open source libraries out there?
- ilovecaching 8y ago
  I developed Java (Swing, Spring, JavaFX), managed tomcat deployments, good stuff. I think my question is, do most Java developers really know what goes outside of their window? Every language has a good story for web apps these days. The web is ubiquitous. You can write in Phoenix, Cowboy, Rails, Sinatra, Express, "net/http", Django, Laravel, Flask, Rocket... Java is literally middle of the pack at best. So that's not a compelling reason to use Java. So then we have to look at the rest of Java. Is there anything else in there that would make it better for web dev than a simple Go/Ruby/Python/Javascript/Rust/Elixir app? No? Ok, then let's not use Java. Java excels at being mediocre at everything, but the best at nothing.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    We rather enjoy the state of the art IDEs, JIT and GC compilers from Java and .NET, while slowly enjoying watching hipster startups rewrite their stacks when customers come flooding in. Ask Twitter how their Rails apps is holding on.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - jacques_chester 8y ago

twic 8y ago

I liked CORBA! I'll take it over whatever lackadaisical JSON silliness we have today.

rb808 8y ago
Amen. Its a sad state of affairs when the middleware we had 25 years ago was faster and more robust that what we have now.

user5994461 8y ago

>>> That stopped being an issue years ago. OpenJDK is a thing, you know? Well, that's seeing the glass half full. OpenJDK was complete garbage in the java 6-7 era, less than 5 years ago. Pretty much every major java software was requiring to install the Oracle JDK. Nobody would accept a bug or a support issue if it happened with the OpenJDK, which was the first question to be asked. And that wasn't fear mongering, java applications that worked perfectly fine just didn't work on the OpenJDK. It is better now. I personally haven't seen an OpenJDK JVM crash in a while.

erikdared 8y ago
Yeah this was a problem for 6 & 7, but I've run plenty of code in production on OpenJDK 8 without issue. I think Java 8 was the first version where OpenJDK was the reference implementation so that likely helped a great deal.

orangecat 8y ago

That stopped being an issue years ago. OpenJDK is a thing, you know? If Oracle's ridiculous interpretation of API copyrights holds up, they have a kill switch for OpenJDK.

pjmlp 8y ago
Just like Google's ridiculous interpretation of the licenses of others being worthless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYw3X4RZv6Y&feature=youtu.be&t=57m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYw3X4RZv6Y&feature=youtu.be...