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This is effectively a price increase and a good move for the future of Patreon. This is a fat cat capitalist opinion but they should increase the cut for all ex

This is effectively a price increase and a good move for the future of Patreon. This is a fat cat capitalist opinion but they should increase the cut for all existing customers too. Grandfathering is a nice gesture but the additional revenue generated from applying this change their current customers would allow Patreon to grow faster and roll out new benefits to all customers.

gjs278 8y ago
what benefits? they are just pocketing donations. this entire app is a one day project outside of the legal requirements to swipe credit cards.
jfk13 8y ago
Alternatively, it might annoy their current customers enough that a significant number of them leave the platform.
lostapathy 8y ago
As someone who is only a consumer and not a creator, what benefits am I waiting on Patreon to grow in order to reap?
- Eric_WVGG 8y ago
  “commerce tools like CRMs and merchandise to try to stay ahead of Twitch, YouTube and Google” apparently. I had no idea that Patreon was competing with Twitch, YouTube, and Google, though… are they also competing with General Electric and Proctor-Gamble? Is the idea that everyone competes with everyone for every dollar and the ultimately capitalism will be a pile of dead bodies with a confused Taco Bell employee sitting on top?
vtange 8y ago
But not all customers need the new benefits and prefer Patreon for being quick, cheap and simple. It would actually be damaging to Patreon if they didn't grandfather and changed to a point they lost that audience.
kbenson 8y ago
It might, or it might allow competition to woo away people that feel betrayed, or at least taken advantage of through a bait and switch. Grandfathering in breeds loyalty, and truthfully, those existing creators are likely so valuable and profitable through scale that it's better to keep them around at a reduced rate rather than lose them. New accounts with relatively little money coming in will probably cost a lot more in support and processing fees than established accounts which know how to use all the features already and have a large enough patron base (and importantly, patrons that likely give to other accounts allowing charge aggregation) that rocking the boat for them at all is really risky.
- mercwear 8y ago
  "Grandfathering in breeds loyalty, and truthfully, those existing creators" Do you have any proof of this? Everything you are saying SOUNDS like it would be correct but it also sounds like a lot of wishful thinking too. I have seen price increases rolled out to the base of several large businesses and customers will gruble a bit but the vast majority of them are fine with the change (businesses NOT consumers) after talking to them about why you are increasing the price and what they can expect from it. Netflix does it almost yearly and people seem to still love them! Github is another example.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    > Do you have any proof of this? Not proof beyond my own example, but that's one case for, and none against that I know of. I expect that at a bare minimum, it will help retain customers through the period where the pricing is new, and at the point you eventually move them to new pricing (perpetual grandfathered pricing is stupid, I'm not going to argue for that), it may help with the reception. A lot of how we perceive our reality is influenced by the narrative it's housed in. That's why it's easy for the internet to blow up every couple months, but if you revisit the issue a while afterwards, there's often a different, more nuanced story that was lost.[1][2] In a reality where the narrative can run wildly out of control to your detriment, there is some benefit to being able to delay or protect your customers from that. I'm not sure whether the benefit is always worth it, but I'm sure it's a tool I would rather have to call on than not. As a simple example, Netflix's price change in 2014 was widely publicized, as it was one of the first major price changes they had done (a 25% increase of the base cost), but they grandfathered in the people that were paying the lower price previously (37% of their customer base).[2] The previous time the changed pricing (by splitting our DVD service but keeping streaming only the same price.... so a price change for some), there was mass outrage and cancellations.[3][4] So, the question is, did Netflix's differing strategy of grandfathering customers avoid the cancellations because people stayed loyal, or because not enough customers felt affected enough to contribute to the narrative that time, or because the change was purely pricing and less complicated, or just because the narrative didn't take hold for unrelated reasons? 1: https://apnews.com/90c35b0e3b1f41abbcb28eef7cf4bd9a https://apnews.com/90c35b0e3b1f41abbcb28eef7cf4bd9a 2: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/04/netflix-is-increasing-its-monthly-subscription-her.html https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/04/netflix-is-in... 3: https://gigaom.com/2014/05/09/the-netflix-price-increase-is-here-new-members-pay-9-for-hd-8-for-sd/ https://gigaom.com/2014/05/09/the-netflix-price-increase-is-... 4: https://gigaom.com/2011/07/12/netflix-price-hike/ https://gigaom.com/2011/07/12/netflix-price-hike/

gjs278 8y ago

what benefits? they are just pocketing donations. this entire app is a one day project outside of the legal requirements to swipe credit cards.

jfk13 8y ago

Alternatively, it might annoy their current customers enough that a significant number of them leave the platform.

lostapathy 8y ago

As someone who is only a consumer and not a creator, what benefits am I waiting on Patreon to grow in order to reap?

Eric_WVGG 8y ago
“commerce tools like CRMs and merchandise to try to stay ahead of Twitch, YouTube and Google” apparently. I had no idea that Patreon was competing with Twitch, YouTube, and Google, though… are they also competing with General Electric and Proctor-Gamble? Is the idea that everyone competes with everyone for every dollar and the ultimately capitalism will be a pile of dead bodies with a confused Taco Bell employee sitting on top?

vtange 8y ago

But not all customers need the new benefits and prefer Patreon for being quick, cheap and simple. It would actually be damaging to Patreon if they didn't grandfather and changed to a point they lost that audience.

kbenson 8y ago

It might, or it might allow competition to woo away people that feel betrayed, or at least taken advantage of through a bait and switch. Grandfathering in breeds loyalty, and truthfully, those existing creators are likely so valuable and profitable through scale that it's better to keep them around at a reduced rate rather than lose them. New accounts with relatively little money coming in will probably cost a lot more in support and processing fees than established accounts which know how to use all the features already and have a large enough patron base (and importantly, patrons that likely give to other accounts allowing charge aggregation) that rocking the boat for them at all is really risky.

mercwear 8y ago
"Grandfathering in breeds loyalty, and truthfully, those existing creators" Do you have any proof of this? Everything you are saying SOUNDS like it would be correct but it also sounds like a lot of wishful thinking too. I have seen price increases rolled out to the base of several large businesses and customers will gruble a bit but the vast majority of them are fine with the change (businesses NOT consumers) after talking to them about why you are increasing the price and what they can expect from it. Netflix does it almost yearly and people seem to still love them! Github is another example.
- kbenson 8y ago
  > Do you have any proof of this? Not proof beyond my own example, but that's one case for, and none against that I know of. I expect that at a bare minimum, it will help retain customers through the period where the pricing is new, and at the point you eventually move them to new pricing (perpetual grandfathered pricing is stupid, I'm not going to argue for that), it may help with the reception. A lot of how we perceive our reality is influenced by the narrative it's housed in. That's why it's easy for the internet to blow up every couple months, but if you revisit the issue a while afterwards, there's often a different, more nuanced story that was lost.[1][2] In a reality where the narrative can run wildly out of control to your detriment, there is some benefit to being able to delay or protect your customers from that. I'm not sure whether the benefit is always worth it, but I'm sure it's a tool I would rather have to call on than not. As a simple example, Netflix's price change in 2014 was widely publicized, as it was one of the first major price changes they had done (a 25% increase of the base cost), but they grandfathered in the people that were paying the lower price previously (37% of their customer base).[2] The previous time the changed pricing (by splitting our DVD service but keeping streaming only the same price.... so a price change for some), there was mass outrage and cancellations.[3][4] So, the question is, did Netflix's differing strategy of grandfathering customers avoid the cancellations because people stayed loyal, or because not enough customers felt affected enough to contribute to the narrative that time, or because the change was purely pricing and less complicated, or just because the narrative didn't take hold for unrelated reasons? 1: https://apnews.com/90c35b0e3b1f41abbcb28eef7cf4bd9a https://apnews.com/90c35b0e3b1f41abbcb28eef7cf4bd9a 2: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/04/netflix-is-increasing-its-monthly-subscription-her.html https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/04/netflix-is-in... 3: https://gigaom.com/2014/05/09/the-netflix-price-increase-is-here-new-members-pay-9-for-hd-8-for-sd/ https://gigaom.com/2014/05/09/the-netflix-price-increase-is-... 4: https://gigaom.com/2011/07/12/netflix-price-hike/ https://gigaom.com/2011/07/12/netflix-price-hike/