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> but it’s all useless if a random idiot proceeds to dump my weekly household recycling output into a river and call it a day. Even if that random idiot dumps

by toofy 8y ago

> but it’s all useless if a random idiot proceeds to dump my weekly household recycling output into a river and call it a day. Even if that random idiot dumps their recycling, it is anything but useless. If you didn't recycle, that would be at least 2 idiots dumping their recycling. Sorry for being pedantic, but it troubles me when people worry they aren't making a difference because some other random idiot doesn't participate.

hvidgaard 8y ago
He is saying that the "random idiot" throws OPs waste in the river when disposing of it. As in the sorting the OP does, makes absolutely no difference because further down the chain they do not use the sorted waste for anything.
notacoward 8y ago
I don't think "random idiot" here meant another consumer. It meant an idiot at the recycling company, though it might not be idiocy. The stuff you put out on the curb doesn't just magically vanish the moment the big green truck pulls away. They have to put it somewhere. As one article I read recently put it, most of us (in the US) haven't really been recycling for years. We've just been shipping our carefully sorted garbage to China, so it just piles up there instead of here. Until they stopped accepting shipments. Now "recyclers" in the US have to find other markets, or figure out how to do some actual recycling on their own. Since neither of those is as profitable as what they've been doing, it wouldn't be too surprising if some resort to just negating consumers' efforts by dumping what they collect wherever they think they can get away with it.
- toofy 8y ago
  Is this fake recycling happening on any kind of scale? This seems like something which could be pretty easily mitigated against by citizens following up with their local cities to verify that things are actually ending up at recycling plants. I'd be furious, considering what I pay for these services if I were to find out they aren't actually recycling. I guess I'll have to look into my local situation. This is a frustrating realization. It's becoming exhausting that it seems like more and more we can't trust companies to do what they imply.
  - usrusr 8y ago
    > Is this fake recycling happening on any kind of scale? Guess who will be the lowest bidder? Even if there is some actual recycling and the trash can be sold for a positive value, chances are that someone who only picks the easiest valuables and then illegally dumps the rest will be able to outbid a more responsible competitor. It's just the natural outcome of a disposal market and it is incredibly difficult to regulate away from that outcome.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - maccard 8y ago
    On HN a few days ago I saw [0] that US cities are in fact actively reducing the scope of or removing their recycling programs. Id be furious too if I lived there (not sure if the UK fares any better) [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19410187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19410187
    - eeZah7Ux 8y ago
      "With China no longer accepting used plastic and paper, communities are facing steep collection bills, forcing them to end their programs or burn or bury more waste." The phrasing is telling. "China no longer accepting", "communities are facing", "forcing them".
  - notacoward 8y ago
    > Is this fake recycling happening on any kind of scale? Unfortunately yes. Here's the article I was thinking about. https://www.wired.com/story/the-worlds-recycling-is-in-chaos-heres-what-has-to-happen/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-worlds-recycling-is-in-chaos... If you look for "recycling crisis" or similar on Google News you'll find many more. I kind of knew that recycling wasn't as eco-efficient as it should be, but I had no idea just how bad it has been and it's getting worse. :(
Dylan16807 8y ago
> If you didn't recycle, that would be at least 2 idiots dumping their recycling. ...no, it would go in the garbage and also not a river.

by toofy 8y ago

hvidgaard 8y ago

He is saying that the "random idiot" throws OPs waste in the river when disposing of it. As in the sorting the OP does, makes absolutely no difference because further down the chain they do not use the sorted waste for anything.

notacoward 8y ago

I don't think "random idiot" here meant another consumer. It meant an idiot at the recycling company, though it might not be idiocy. The stuff you put out on the curb doesn't just magically vanish the moment the big green truck pulls away. They have to put it somewhere. As one article I read recently put it, most of us (in the US) haven't really been recycling for years. We've just been shipping our carefully sorted garbage to China, so it just piles up there instead of here. Until they stopped accepting shipments. Now "recyclers" in the US have to find other markets, or figure out how to do some actual recycling on their own. Since neither of those is as profitable as what they've been doing, it wouldn't be too surprising if some resort to just negating consumers' efforts by dumping what they collect wherever they think they can get away with it.

toofy 8y ago
Is this fake recycling happening on any kind of scale? This seems like something which could be pretty easily mitigated against by citizens following up with their local cities to verify that things are actually ending up at recycling plants. I'd be furious, considering what I pay for these services if I were to find out they aren't actually recycling. I guess I'll have to look into my local situation. This is a frustrating realization. It's becoming exhausting that it seems like more and more we can't trust companies to do what they imply.
- usrusr 8y ago
  > Is this fake recycling happening on any kind of scale? Guess who will be the lowest bidder? Even if there is some actual recycling and the trash can be sold for a positive value, chances are that someone who only picks the easiest valuables and then illegally dumps the rest will be able to outbid a more responsible competitor. It's just the natural outcome of a disposal market and it is incredibly difficult to regulate away from that outcome.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- maccard 8y ago
  On HN a few days ago I saw [0] that US cities are in fact actively reducing the scope of or removing their recycling programs. Id be furious too if I lived there (not sure if the UK fares any better) [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19410187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19410187
  - eeZah7Ux 8y ago
    "With China no longer accepting used plastic and paper, communities are facing steep collection bills, forcing them to end their programs or burn or bury more waste." The phrasing is telling. "China no longer accepting", "communities are facing", "forcing them".
- notacoward 8y ago
  > Is this fake recycling happening on any kind of scale? Unfortunately yes. Here's the article I was thinking about. https://www.wired.com/story/the-worlds-recycling-is-in-chaos-heres-what-has-to-happen/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-worlds-recycling-is-in-chaos... If you look for "recycling crisis" or similar on Google News you'll find many more. I kind of knew that recycling wasn't as eco-efficient as it should be, but I had no idea just how bad it has been and it's getting worse. :(

Dylan16807 8y ago

> If you didn't recycle, that would be at least 2 idiots dumping their recycling. ...no, it would go in the garbage and also not a river.