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I would be interested to know if any Italians (or otherwise knowledgable people) are here who can comment on this anecdote: I once stayed with some Italians ne
by jarmitage 8y ago
I would be interested to know if any Italians (or otherwise knowledgable people) are here who can comment on this anecdote:
I once stayed with some Italians near Pisa, who were home schooling their children. They said that corrupt and ignorant politicians have added unnecessary vaccines to the list of requirements, due to lobbying/collusion with pharma companies and as a way to influence elections. As a result, some parents decided to home school their children, so in turn the government said that any home schooled children who don't have these vaccines cannot take the official exams.
Edit: these were not my "friends"! Very nice folks but this one triggered my BS detector. I never looked into it, and this story reminded me.
- Udik 8y agoNot even sure you can home school children in Italy. I don't think so, schooling is mandatory up to a certain age. Anyway, I've never heard of anyone doing it.
- frostburg 8y agoYou can, but only terrible people do it. EDIT: keep in mind that the public school system will bend over backwards to integrate and accomodate even the most problematic special needs children. It's among the few things that it does really well.
- everdev 8y agoI don't think HN is the place for judging people you've probably never met.
- frostburg 8y agoSon of teachers. I'm familiar with the issue at hand (there is basically no reason to homeschool in Italy unless you are in a cult or neglect your child heavily).
- leftyted 8y agoThis is the US, but an op-ed from a favorite novelist of mine in favor of homeschooling: https://www.salon.com/1997/10/01/01school/ https://www.salon.com/1997/10/01/01school/ I was not homeschooled, but I hated school (even though it was a good public school) and if people want to educate their own children, they should be able to.
- everdev 8y ago> no reason to homeschool in Italy unless you are in a cult or neglect your child heavily Doubling down? I know plenty of kind, loving people who are actively involved in home schooling and are not affiliated with any cult or religion. I know plenty of wonderful families who choose public school and wonderful families that choose home school. I think there's more depth and diversity to people who home school than you might be know of. Some choose to travel the world and expose their children to the amazing biological and human diversity of this planet. What an amazing way to participate in your child's growth and build tolerance for people who think and act differently than you do. As a general rule, it's best not to disparage an entire group of people. I'd be really careful with declarations like those as they can lead to very dehumanizing schools of thought.
- frostburg 8y agoDo you live in the United States? I get the impression that the intellectual climate in grade schools in the USA is vastly more problematic (not that it's spotless here).
- Udik 8y agoOk, I've checked. Apparently it's possible through some very loose interpretation of the law and some additional, and relatively recent, act of the government, which among other things mandates that the parents providing homeschooling need to prove their "financial and technical ability" to do so. Which sounds pretty unlikely since the public school teachers are pretty specialized. In practice in Italy it's such a marginal phenomenon that the law is simply providing a loophole for a tiny minority of very combative people who prefer to give to their children what is ultimately a worse education (if you just wanted to add to the education provided for free by public schools nobody prevented you to do so anyway). In any case these kids need to go through a yearly exam to check on their progress and move to the next "class". Edit: I add what seems to me a very reasonable sentence of the European Court of Human Rights, that upheld Germany's ban on homeschooling: "children are unable to foresee the consequences of their parents' decision for home education because of their young age.... Schools represent society, and it is in the children's interest to become part of that society. The parents' right to educate does not go as far as to deprive their children of that experience."
- tomjen3 8y agoHaving attended a public school where is was bullied and my time wasted by terrible teachers, I would have been much, much better of being home schooled.
- LoSboccacc 8y agoThere's no requirement or limitation to become a private school, taking part of a public exam at the end of each cycle is sufficient. I think homeschooling would fall under being a really really small private school. but it's weird since the passed law is only about children before the primary cycle. there's an impeding lawsuit that might change that, however italian case law is case by case, it's hard for precedents to become case law since there's no equivalent here afaik
- frostburg 8y agoI am Italian. Those people were anti-vaxers. That's a typical conspiracy theory among them. Just so that you know, vaccines are the most cost effective form of public health intervention and the profit margins on them are thin, it would not make any sense to do what they told you. The election part is obviously insane.
- sehugg 8y agoFor more detail, look up the Five Star movement and comedian/populist hero Beppe Grillo: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/11/rise-of-italian-populist-parties-buoys-anti-vaccine-movement https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/11/rise-of-italia...
- jarmitage 8y agoI was certainly suspicious of their claims but I did not know that was typical anti-vaxer rhetoric. Good to know, thanks.
- kalleboo 8y ago> They said that corrupt and ignorant politicians have added unnecessary vaccines to the list of requirements, due to lobbying/collusion with pharma companies FWIW, This is standard anti-vaxxer rhetoric in any country. You see stuff like this anywhere: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeS7VhVWsAABZOJ.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeS7VhVWsAABZOJ.jpg
- jarmitage 8y agoDid not know that to be common anti-vax rhetoric, thanks.
- alexandercrohde 8y agoWhen you say "rhetoric" do you mean it is not true then?
- frostburg 8y agoYes, of course it's a complete fabrication. Big Pharma would pick something with actual profit margins.
- CydeWeys 8y agoI have Italian relatives and I've heard a lot of questionable conspiracy theories or urban legends out of them. Things like all corner grocery stores that are run by Asians are really property of the Chinese mafia, or that if you have moving air on your throat at night you'll get a sore throat. Point is, take this kinds of conspiracy theories with a huge grain of salt. I would love to hear which required vaccinations are allegedly unnecessary.
- puzzle 8y agoIt's bad enough that there's a word in the language (in English, it translates along the lines of "behindology") to refer to Italians' pseudoscience of looking for the actual story that hides BEHIND the apparent reality. Granted, it might be rooted in decades or centuries of lies, but it still boils down to conspiracy theories.
- luckydata 8y agoItalian here: your friends are dumb.
- dang 8y agoPlease don't do this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html