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I actually agree with everything you said - I, too, have never felt or seen bias against women in IT, once we're all adults. My perspective is that of the paren

I actually agree with everything you said - I, too, have never felt or seen bias against women in IT, once we're all adults. My perspective is that of the parent of a six-year-old girl, and if you actually believe that society doesn't start drilling into girls' heads from day one that their mission in life is to play with dolls, put on make up, and do little else... well, then you don't see much mainstream media.

m0nty 18y ago
Please don't think I was ranting at you, I really didn't mean it to come across like that :) It's just this daft idea that there should be a 50/50 M/F split across any profession, let alone IT. I have two children (1 boy, 1 girl) and they have very different interests, so I'm approaching this from a parent's viewpoint as well. As for encouraging them into the profession, I always say "do something you like and ignore computers, because it will grind you down in a relentless, soul-destroying fashion." I'm being a bit cynical and if they showed a genuine interest I'd encourage it, but I'll be damned if I say it's the most rewarding, happy profession out there. Cos it ain't.
- projectileboy 18y ago
  No offense taken, brother. My rant stems from how shocked I am each and every day at how strongly girls are encouraged to be submissive, or even just plain stupid. People I know without kids often act like it's not an issue, "just keep 'em away from TV", but they don't see that it's everywhere: TV, radio, product packaging, billboards, etc. I was pretty blind to it myself until I had a daughter.
  - m0nty 18y ago
    "every day at how strongly girls are encouraged to be submissive, or even just plain stupid" Yup, I agree with that. My daughter discovered Xena a few years ago, then Buffy, so she doesn't fit the submissive, stupid mold at all :-) Good role models, AFAIC. There's no TV and I've always taught them to be suspicious of advertising, so that helps. But, let's face it, we all fit some kind of cultural expectations even when we don't want to.
  - jimbokun 18y ago
    In the U.S. many more women are now attending college than men. In large U.S. cities, for the first time ever, young women are out-earning men. I just don't buy that (U.S.) women are receiving and accepting a message that they are "submissive." There is still some overhang from the previous male dominated culture, but it is being rapidly eroded and may have already disappeared for the generation now attending college and/or entering the work force. I am curious to see data indicating a trend in the opposite direction.
    - shawndrost 18y ago
      "In large U.S. cities, for the first time ever, young women are out-earning men." -- interesting! citation?
      - jimbokun 18y ago
        http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html "Young women in New York and several of the nation’s other largest cities who work full time have forged ahead of men in wages, according to an analysis of recent census data."
silencio 18y ago
Then a lot of "adults" really aren't adults. I've met lots of people from all walks of life, and there's really nothing separating the cretins from the nice folks. Mainstream media can be pretty disturbing. I have a bunch of friends my age (19), and I'm quite possibly the only one that puts makeup on sparingly only at special events like a concert I'm performing at - like, covering up a small blemish and putting on a teeny bit of eyeshadow to be a bit more photogenic. Apparently you're not beautiful until your face is buried under a ton of makeup. :(

m0nty 18y ago

Please don't think I was ranting at you, I really didn't mean it to come across like that :) It's just this daft idea that there should be a 50/50 M/F split across any profession, let alone IT. I have two children (1 boy, 1 girl) and they have very different interests, so I'm approaching this from a parent's viewpoint as well. As for encouraging them into the profession, I always say "do something you like and ignore computers, because it will grind you down in a relentless, soul-destroying fashion." I'm being a bit cynical and if they showed a genuine interest I'd encourage it, but I'll be damned if I say it's the most rewarding, happy profession out there. Cos it ain't.

projectileboy 18y ago
No offense taken, brother. My rant stems from how shocked I am each and every day at how strongly girls are encouraged to be submissive, or even just plain stupid. People I know without kids often act like it's not an issue, "just keep 'em away from TV", but they don't see that it's everywhere: TV, radio, product packaging, billboards, etc. I was pretty blind to it myself until I had a daughter.
- m0nty 18y ago
  "every day at how strongly girls are encouraged to be submissive, or even just plain stupid" Yup, I agree with that. My daughter discovered Xena a few years ago, then Buffy, so she doesn't fit the submissive, stupid mold at all :-) Good role models, AFAIC. There's no TV and I've always taught them to be suspicious of advertising, so that helps. But, let's face it, we all fit some kind of cultural expectations even when we don't want to.
- jimbokun 18y ago
  In the U.S. many more women are now attending college than men. In large U.S. cities, for the first time ever, young women are out-earning men. I just don't buy that (U.S.) women are receiving and accepting a message that they are "submissive." There is still some overhang from the previous male dominated culture, but it is being rapidly eroded and may have already disappeared for the generation now attending college and/or entering the work force. I am curious to see data indicating a trend in the opposite direction.
  - shawndrost 18y ago
    "In large U.S. cities, for the first time ever, young women are out-earning men." -- interesting! citation?
    - jimbokun 18y ago
      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html "Young women in New York and several of the nation’s other largest cities who work full time have forged ahead of men in wages, according to an analysis of recent census data."

silencio 18y ago

Then a lot of "adults" really aren't adults. I've met lots of people from all walks of life, and there's really nothing separating the cretins from the nice folks. Mainstream media can be pretty disturbing. I have a bunch of friends my age (19), and I'm quite possibly the only one that puts makeup on sparingly only at special events like a concert I'm performing at - like, covering up a small blemish and putting on a teeny bit of eyeshadow to be a bit more photogenic. Apparently you're not beautiful until your face is buried under a ton of makeup. :(