7 ms·

Consumers prefer super-thin soldered machines, sadly. The proof is in the shopping.

by hopler 8y ago

pilsetnieks 8y ago
Not always, sometimes you cannot see the proof because a company just doesn't offer any other options. If there was a modern laptop that ran macOS that was user upgradeable, I would absolutely get it in my next upgrade cycle. Alas, there isn't one. Also companies aren't always superrational logic machines that have coldly calculated their every more; there's sometimes a lot of collective delusion going on that can leave their consumers in the cold, who then just make do with the best out of a bad lot that's offered. Recall the recent iPhones - suddenly every other phone had a notch even when it served no purpose; or the removal of audio jacks, for example. There was NO consumer preference expressed there, just one company that decided it that way for its own purposes, and others blindly copying it.
- sharno 8y ago
  I'm not by any means knowledgeable on the hardware design front. But I think the notch was a hardware design solution to a problem (I'm not sure what it is but probably to fit more components or save space inside the phone for something) and all the others copied it because it was a clever solution to an existing problem and it didn't appear to affect users much.
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Consumers "prefer" what the billions of pounds spent on marketing tells them to prefer. If companies spent money telling consumers to value upgradability and not to buy new stuff all the time, then we'd value that more .. but that doesn't sell more stuff, it just helps save the planet, so why bother ....
adrianN 8y ago
Consumers don't know that they have the option to fix their machines. They are trained to toss devices (not just computers, but also cellphones, TVs, and appliances) instead of taking them to a repair shop.
- squirrelicus 8y ago
  In the defense of upgrade culture, you ever wonder where those old phones you trade in go? Phone companies have been turning them into profit by shipping them to the developing world. We live in an era where the even the most remote and impoverished places on Earth have, at minimum, a cell phone in their villages. And it's that crappy circa 2000 Nokia you had that plays snake. Now they can call emergency services on demand or keep in touch with long distance loved ones. Capitalism is such a blessing.
  - VibrantClarity 8y ago
    Are you serious? No one is using a 2000 Nokia, even in the third world. Do you think it's cheaper to collect phones in the first world, wipe them, test them, and ship them to the third world (assuming they could even connect to any cellular network) than to mass manufacture $15 plastic Androids?
epanchin 8y ago
Has Apple offered an upgrade able laptop alongside a non-upgradeable one? Would be possible to draw that conclusion if they sold a new style MacBook Pro alongside an older style one with similar specs.
- sosborn 8y ago
  > Has Apple offered an upgrade able laptop alongside a non-upgradeable one? No, but I would be shocked if they have never run focus groups for this type of stuff.
- linguae 8y ago
  Yes. Between 2012 and 2016, Apple sold a version of the 2008-2012 unibody MacBook Pro that had an optical drive and upgradeable RAM, while simultaneously offering the Retina MacBook Pro, the first to solder the RAM to the motherboard. Arguably from a specifications standpoint the Retina MacBook Pro was the superior model due to its high-resolution display and its use of a fast proprietary flash drive (replaced with standard NVMe in later versions) instead of slower SATA flash drives. Eventually the unibody MacBook Pro would get long in the tooth due to lack of updates compared to Apple's annually-updated Retina MacBook Pro models, but it was still sold until it was quietly discontinued in 2016 upon the announcement of the controversial touchbar MacBook Pro.
mnemonic204 8y ago
Is that why the sort-of upgradeable 2015 MBPs nowadays go for higher prices on ebay already than the absolutely non-upgradeable 2016/17s?
- adiabatty 8y ago
  The 2015s don't have the "a single speck of dust gets in the keyboard and disables a key" problem. All later models do. I don't think upgradeability factors into it much.
opan 8y ago
It makes sense to think this when looking at modern consumer tech, but I haven't met people who actually want that sort of thing. It always seems like people are having to settle.
Nihilartikel 8y ago
Consumers are multi modal, though. Many can't be bothered to dig in and debug or want a sleek highly integrated product. Some others care less for those things and want an upgradeable, repairable product. It's my hope that economic solutions will find the resources accommodate both modalities.
ekianjo 8y ago
No, because such options are almost completely gone from the market. And I can't honestly believe that there is "no market" for it. It's an anomaly because most PC manufacturers are just trying to imitate Apple.

Consumers prefer super-thin soldered machines, sadly. The proof is in the shopping.

by hopler 8y ago

Consumers prefer super-thin soldered machines, sadly. The proof is in the shopping.

Not always, sometimes you cannot see the proof because a company just doesn't offer any other options. If there was a modern laptop that ran macOS that was user upgradeable, I would absolutely get it in my next upgrade cycle. Alas, there isn't one. Also companies aren't always superrational logic machines that have coldly calculated their every more; there's sometimes a lot of collective delusion going on that can leave their consumers in the cold, who then just make do with the best out of a bad lot that's offered. Recall the recent iPhones - suddenly every other phone had a notch even when it served no purpose; or the removal of audio jacks, for example. There was NO consumer preference expressed there, just one company that decided it that way for its own purposes, and others blindly copying it.

sharno 8y ago
I'm not by any means knowledgeable on the hardware design front. But I think the notch was a hardware design solution to a problem (I'm not sure what it is but probably to fit more components or save space inside the phone for something) and all the others copied it because it was a clever solution to an existing problem and it didn't appear to affect users much.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago

Consumers "prefer" what the billions of pounds spent on marketing tells them to prefer. If companies spent money telling consumers to value upgradability and not to buy new stuff all the time, then we'd value that more .. but that doesn't sell more stuff, it just helps save the planet, so why bother ....

adrianN 8y ago

Consumers don't know that they have the option to fix their machines. They are trained to toss devices (not just computers, but also cellphones, TVs, and appliances) instead of taking them to a repair shop.

squirrelicus 8y ago
In the defense of upgrade culture, you ever wonder where those old phones you trade in go? Phone companies have been turning them into profit by shipping them to the developing world. We live in an era where the even the most remote and impoverished places on Earth have, at minimum, a cell phone in their villages. And it's that crappy circa 2000 Nokia you had that plays snake. Now they can call emergency services on demand or keep in touch with long distance loved ones. Capitalism is such a blessing.
- VibrantClarity 8y ago
  Are you serious? No one is using a 2000 Nokia, even in the third world. Do you think it's cheaper to collect phones in the first world, wipe them, test them, and ship them to the third world (assuming they could even connect to any cellular network) than to mass manufacture $15 plastic Androids?

epanchin 8y ago

Has Apple offered an upgrade able laptop alongside a non-upgradeable one? Would be possible to draw that conclusion if they sold a new style MacBook Pro alongside an older style one with similar specs.

sosborn 8y ago
> Has Apple offered an upgrade able laptop alongside a non-upgradeable one? No, but I would be shocked if they have never run focus groups for this type of stuff.
linguae 8y ago
Yes. Between 2012 and 2016, Apple sold a version of the 2008-2012 unibody MacBook Pro that had an optical drive and upgradeable RAM, while simultaneously offering the Retina MacBook Pro, the first to solder the RAM to the motherboard. Arguably from a specifications standpoint the Retina MacBook Pro was the superior model due to its high-resolution display and its use of a fast proprietary flash drive (replaced with standard NVMe in later versions) instead of slower SATA flash drives. Eventually the unibody MacBook Pro would get long in the tooth due to lack of updates compared to Apple's annually-updated Retina MacBook Pro models, but it was still sold until it was quietly discontinued in 2016 upon the announcement of the controversial touchbar MacBook Pro.

mnemonic204 8y ago

Is that why the sort-of upgradeable 2015 MBPs nowadays go for higher prices on ebay already than the absolutely non-upgradeable 2016/17s?

adiabatty 8y ago
The 2015s don't have the "a single speck of dust gets in the keyboard and disables a key" problem. All later models do. I don't think upgradeability factors into it much.

opan 8y ago

It makes sense to think this when looking at modern consumer tech, but I haven't met people who actually want that sort of thing. It always seems like people are having to settle.

Nihilartikel 8y ago

Consumers are multi modal, though. Many can't be bothered to dig in and debug or want a sleek highly integrated product. Some others care less for those things and want an upgradeable, repairable product. It's my hope that economic solutions will find the resources accommodate both modalities.

ekianjo 8y ago

No, because such options are almost completely gone from the market. And I can't honestly believe that there is "no market" for it. It's an anomaly because most PC manufacturers are just trying to imitate Apple.