4 ms·

This is environmental determinism and it is an old concept. Obviously we live with others and other can have impact on us but it is still up to us if are impact

This is environmental determinism and it is an old concept. Obviously we live with others and other can have impact on us but it is still up to us if are impacted by them or we are self contained human beings which decide for themselves.

Geimfari 8y ago
That we are self contained human beings isn't obvious to me. All of my opinions, thoughts, and actions are a reflection of my surrounding social group.
- mac_was 8y ago
  So if all your friends starts killing would you start as well? I believe you have free will, your imagination, a brain and you can assess for yourself what actions you eant to perform.
  - bsenftner 8y ago
    I bet if your situation was such that your friends start killing, you would be in the same situation and start killing too. Yes we have free will, very much so. That is why we kill.
    - mac_was 8y ago
      Animals do not have free will and they kill as well, they kill because of instinct so your point is not true.
      - bsenftner 8y ago
        Animals certainly have free will. It is nonsense to believe otherwise.
  - zwkrt 8y ago
    Didn't you just describe the military?
  - obstacle1 8y ago
    Can you think of any societies/cultures in history within which killing became highly normalized behavior? I can think of a few.
claudiawerner 8y ago
Is there any reason to think that we have such a choice? Spinoza, a contemporary of Descartes, makes a good case that we don't have such any option at all. In fact, one particular quote I love is a very simple one: "Men are deceived in thinking themselves free, a belief that consists only in this, that they are conscious of their actions and ignorant of the causes by which they are determined." I think this is in some way separate from the metaphysical issue of free will and determinism, since whether our choices are determined by the universe or by us is quite a separate question to the extent to which society influences our choices in general. In my experience, it is absolutely not "still up to us" whether we are influenced by these factors, and a belief that it is up to us is more dangerous since it's delusional. The whole existence of the field of psychology, advertising, politics and propaganda is based on the idea that many things are not up to us - unfortunately we don't get to decide, but we like to think that we do. Our desires, hopes, fears, opinions etc. are all imported from outside sources to a great extent, and it takes critical thinking to seriously ask about those - critical thinking we very rarely, if ever, apply to ourselves, because it leads to a kind of cognitive dissonance. I have personally suffered through this as I went deeper into political philosophy and saw that many concepts I held so dearly to were simply unsubstantiated, things that I believed due to ideological factors (from which none of us are ever free) and from my friends and relatives (which we may distance ourselves from to some extent only). The idea we have control over these things without this critical-induced "pain" of having to confront ourselves is farcical.

Geimfari 8y ago

That we are self contained human beings isn't obvious to me. All of my opinions, thoughts, and actions are a reflection of my surrounding social group.

mac_was 8y ago
So if all your friends starts killing would you start as well? I believe you have free will, your imagination, a brain and you can assess for yourself what actions you eant to perform.
- bsenftner 8y ago
  I bet if your situation was such that your friends start killing, you would be in the same situation and start killing too. Yes we have free will, very much so. That is why we kill.
  - mac_was 8y ago
    Animals do not have free will and they kill as well, they kill because of instinct so your point is not true.
    - bsenftner 8y ago
      Animals certainly have free will. It is nonsense to believe otherwise.
- zwkrt 8y ago
  Didn't you just describe the military?
- obstacle1 8y ago
  Can you think of any societies/cultures in history within which killing became highly normalized behavior? I can think of a few.

claudiawerner 8y ago

Is there any reason to think that we have such a choice? Spinoza, a contemporary of Descartes, makes a good case that we don't have such any option at all. In fact, one particular quote I love is a very simple one: "Men are deceived in thinking themselves free, a belief that consists only in this, that they are conscious of their actions and ignorant of the causes by which they are determined." I think this is in some way separate from the metaphysical issue of free will and determinism, since whether our choices are determined by the universe or by us is quite a separate question to the extent to which society influences our choices in general. In my experience, it is absolutely not "still up to us" whether we are influenced by these factors, and a belief that it is up to us is more dangerous since it's delusional. The whole existence of the field of psychology, advertising, politics and propaganda is based on the idea that many things are not up to us - unfortunately we don't get to decide, but we like to think that we do. Our desires, hopes, fears, opinions etc. are all imported from outside sources to a great extent, and it takes critical thinking to seriously ask about those - critical thinking we very rarely, if ever, apply to ourselves, because it leads to a kind of cognitive dissonance. I have personally suffered through this as I went deeper into political philosophy and saw that many concepts I held so dearly to were simply unsubstantiated, things that I believed due to ideological factors (from which none of us are ever free) and from my friends and relatives (which we may distance ourselves from to some extent only). The idea we have control over these things without this critical-induced "pain" of having to confront ourselves is farcical.