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In my experience as a math teacher, there's a lot of sources of math anxiety. There are a few I see the most: * Stereotype threat. * High school students thin

by pflats 8y ago

In my experience as a math teacher, there's a lot of sources of math anxiety. There are a few I see the most: * Stereotype threat. * High school students thinking "I was good at math in 3rd grade, so I need to be good at math now."/"I was bad at math in 3rd grade, so I will be bad at math now." while not taking into account the differences in the subject and themselves over that time. * Students never being told that math is actually difficult and requires perseverance, encountering a struggle for the first time in math, and taking it as a personal failing rather than the expected order of things.

maxxxxx 8y ago
At least in the US it’s acceptable to say “ I am bad at math” or “I am bad at languages” so a lot of people don’t even try or really believe that these things are insurmountably difficult. I have never heard anybody say publicly “reading this too hard for me”.
- arethuza 8y ago
  I don't think that's just the US - fairly common in the UK, at least in some circles, to be perversely proud of an ignorance of basic calculations.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    True. It almost seems to be a badge of honor.
    - valesco 8y ago
      How is that surprising given that shared hardships make people feel closer to each other.
- jasode 8y ago
  >I have never heard anybody say publicly “reading this too hard for me”. For the non-math subjects, some people do say "I'm bad at spelling", or "I'm bad at grammar". At a higher level of language skills, some people say "I'm bad at writing speeches or wordsmithing an email/Powerpoint to explain things". Personally, I've always been weak at grammar. Intellectually, I know the difference between "whom" and "who" but I inevitably forget the extra "m" in the appropriate spots. It's not a matter of insufficient practice either. I've been practicing English for decades since I was in diapers! On the other hand, I never forget the minus sign for the derivative of "cosine(x)" being "-sin(x)".
japhyr 8y ago
I've been a middle and high school math teacher for 25 years, mostly to at-risk students. Almost all of them have what we call "math anxiety". By far, the most common reason I see it is how they were treated by math teachers. One student had a teacher who made students go up to the board and write their incorrect solutions on the board, and they had to stay there until they "figured it out". Many have been told they were stupid, or told they would just never be able to learn. That experience is way more common than many teachers and administrators want to admit. There's also the pacing issue. Many students get lost in a math class at some point in their early learning career, and then there's no real way to get caught back up. This compounds with teachers who don't really understand math, who are just teaching algorithms and rules and don't know what to do with students who are lost. I've had good success just by meeting each student where they're at, and letting each student progress from where they are. I always look for what students do understand, and build on that understanding. It typically takes students one or two classes being treated well to start really recovering from that earlier anxiety.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  >There's also the pacing issue. Many students get lost in a math class at some point in their early learning career, // Following pupils pace is a failing of mass education (in the UK) in general I feel. At primary school I was disengaged from maths because it was so facile. To some extent I've seen that with my kids too -- for example entering nursery they do counting to 3 (!). But my youngster already counts beyond 20. We sought to use Flexi-schooling to mitigate this effect but unfortunately it's down to individual schools and our headteacher isn't interested (I think that contradicts the Education Act, in spirit at least).
- liveoneggs 8y ago
  does "new math" help or hurt this?
  - japhyr 8y ago
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by "new math".
jasode 8y ago
>Students never being told that math is actually difficult and requires perseverance, encountering a struggle for the first time in math, and taking it as a personal failing rather than the expected order of things. I think this bullet point overlooks other factors contributing to the idea that the math anxiety is a personal failing. For example, kids doing poorly in math observe other kids that grasp the concepts quickly and don't fall behind. Some get A's without struggling. The article/study of this thread is about primary & secondary school and at that young age, the math of Algebra, Trigonometry, etc was not difficult for me. It was tedious (e.g. endless manual matrix multiplication exercises) -- but it was never difficult. Some kids really do struggle with basic topics like fractions, percentages, reciprocals, etc. The first time math was "difficult" was Calculus I. (What's this delta-epsilon proof of a limit all about and why do I care?) Yes, one has to practice math but kids are not stupid in that they see some of their peers master it easily. The kids understandably conclude that their brain isn't optimized to easily understand math. Explaining to those slower kids that "math is difficult therefore you must practice more" actually increases their math anxiety.
- gerbilly 8y ago
  > kids doing poorly in math observe other kids that grasp the concepts quickly and don't fall behind. Some get A's without struggling. Two comments. * The kids who appear not to struggle may be struggling at home the night before, or working on math a lot more. * Math will become difficult for anyone who pursues it far enough.
  - jasode 8y ago
    >The kids who appear not to struggle may be struggling at home the night before, or working on math a lot more. One can tell the struggling child that others "may have struggled the night before" but that explanation will not remove the math anxiety because it will not convincingly explain all the performance differences the child sees. For example, in the USA, a primary/secondary teacher will lecture on a new math concept on the whiteboard and there will often be ~15 minutes left over to start the homework assignment. The kids "good at math" get started right away without any visible struggling -- and may even finish the homework before the bell is rung. The slower kids become self-aware that they need the teacher to help them more often. There is no "previous night" to hide a struggle. The slower kids see immediately that some of their peers really do pick up on new math concepts easily without practice. It's their comparisons of their ability to their peers that triggers some of that math anxiety.

by pflats 8y ago

maxxxxx 8y ago

At least in the US it’s acceptable to say “ I am bad at math” or “I am bad at languages” so a lot of people don’t even try or really believe that these things are insurmountably difficult. I have never heard anybody say publicly “reading this too hard for me”.

arethuza 8y ago
I don't think that's just the US - fairly common in the UK, at least in some circles, to be perversely proud of an ignorance of basic calculations.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  True. It almost seems to be a badge of honor.
  - valesco 8y ago
    How is that surprising given that shared hardships make people feel closer to each other.
jasode 8y ago
>I have never heard anybody say publicly “reading this too hard for me”. For the non-math subjects, some people do say "I'm bad at spelling", or "I'm bad at grammar". At a higher level of language skills, some people say "I'm bad at writing speeches or wordsmithing an email/Powerpoint to explain things". Personally, I've always been weak at grammar. Intellectually, I know the difference between "whom" and "who" but I inevitably forget the extra "m" in the appropriate spots. It's not a matter of insufficient practice either. I've been practicing English for decades since I was in diapers! On the other hand, I never forget the minus sign for the derivative of "cosine(x)" being "-sin(x)".

japhyr 8y ago

I've been a middle and high school math teacher for 25 years, mostly to at-risk students. Almost all of them have what we call "math anxiety". By far, the most common reason I see it is how they were treated by math teachers. One student had a teacher who made students go up to the board and write their incorrect solutions on the board, and they had to stay there until they "figured it out". Many have been told they were stupid, or told they would just never be able to learn. That experience is way more common than many teachers and administrators want to admit. There's also the pacing issue. Many students get lost in a math class at some point in their early learning career, and then there's no real way to get caught back up. This compounds with teachers who don't really understand math, who are just teaching algorithms and rules and don't know what to do with students who are lost. I've had good success just by meeting each student where they're at, and letting each student progress from where they are. I always look for what students do understand, and build on that understanding. It typically takes students one or two classes being treated well to start really recovering from that earlier anxiety.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
>There's also the pacing issue. Many students get lost in a math class at some point in their early learning career, // Following pupils pace is a failing of mass education (in the UK) in general I feel. At primary school I was disengaged from maths because it was so facile. To some extent I've seen that with my kids too -- for example entering nursery they do counting to 3 (!). But my youngster already counts beyond 20. We sought to use Flexi-schooling to mitigate this effect but unfortunately it's down to individual schools and our headteacher isn't interested (I think that contradicts the Education Act, in spirit at least).
liveoneggs 8y ago
does "new math" help or hurt this?
- japhyr 8y ago
  I'm not quite sure what you mean by "new math".

jasode 8y ago

>Students never being told that math is actually difficult and requires perseverance, encountering a struggle for the first time in math, and taking it as a personal failing rather than the expected order of things. I think this bullet point overlooks other factors contributing to the idea that the math anxiety is a personal failing. For example, kids doing poorly in math observe other kids that grasp the concepts quickly and don't fall behind. Some get A's without struggling. The article/study of this thread is about primary & secondary school and at that young age, the math of Algebra, Trigonometry, etc was not difficult for me. It was tedious (e.g. endless manual matrix multiplication exercises) -- but it was never difficult. Some kids really do struggle with basic topics like fractions, percentages, reciprocals, etc. The first time math was "difficult" was Calculus I. (What's this delta-epsilon proof of a limit all about and why do I care?) Yes, one has to practice math but kids are not stupid in that they see some of their peers master it easily. The kids understandably conclude that their brain isn't optimized to easily understand math. Explaining to those slower kids that "math is difficult therefore you must practice more" actually increases their math anxiety.

gerbilly 8y ago
> kids doing poorly in math observe other kids that grasp the concepts quickly and don't fall behind. Some get A's without struggling. Two comments. * The kids who appear not to struggle may be struggling at home the night before, or working on math a lot more. * Math will become difficult for anyone who pursues it far enough.
- jasode 8y ago
  >The kids who appear not to struggle may be struggling at home the night before, or working on math a lot more. One can tell the struggling child that others "may have struggled the night before" but that explanation will not remove the math anxiety because it will not convincingly explain all the performance differences the child sees. For example, in the USA, a primary/secondary teacher will lecture on a new math concept on the whiteboard and there will often be ~15 minutes left over to start the homework assignment. The kids "good at math" get started right away without any visible struggling -- and may even finish the homework before the bell is rung. The slower kids become self-aware that they need the teacher to help them more often. There is no "previous night" to hide a struggle. The slower kids see immediately that some of their peers really do pick up on new math concepts easily without practice. It's their comparisons of their ability to their peers that triggers some of that math anxiety.