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Huawei isn't trustworthy 5G partner, German spy agency says
- ElBarto 8y ago- Hey, who's that guy sitting behind you in the corner? - Oh, just an American friend, don't mind him, bitte.
- martin_a 8y agoDon't understand the downvotes, this is what this is all about. It's not about Huawei being more or less trustworthy than the others, it's just about the US (three-letter agencies) "not liking" Huawei.
- lustysocietyorg 8y agoThis is HN. Like reddit. Certain opinions or facts are downvoted without any contradicting facts. Now matter how reasonable the opinion or true the fact is. Especially regarding politics and nutrition. If your comment matches a certain pattern, you get downvoted or upvoted by certain people who never give any facts but who might insult you instead. PS https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.golem.de%2Fnews%2F5g-nato-droht-deutschland-wegen-huawei-1903-140039.html https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u...
- ElBarto 8y agoSpot on, which is sad.
- ardy42 8y ago> Certain opinions or facts are downvoted without any contradicting facts. Now matter how reasonable the opinion or true the fact is. Not really in this case. Take the comment in question: there's no fact or even much opinion there. It's mostly innuendo. Good moderators will downvote trollish comments, or flamebait, or comments that lead in other unproductive or uninteresting directions, regardless of the "opinions or facts" it contains.
- ElBarto 8y agoYou are proving his point by being so dishonest and insulting me, and downvoting everything. And you guys are the ones taking things in unproductive directions by refusing to address or discuss the point of my initial comment (and you even go as far as pretending not to understand the point or to misrepresent it), which is American influence over its allies.
- jamesrcole 8y agoI wasn't pretending. You overestimate your communication skills. Have a look at your original comment and how much it is assuming that isn't being communicated to its audience. What is this conversation supposed to be? Is it a play on lines from a movie or something? Who is it meant to be between? Who does the first speaker represent? What about the second? What is the context of the conversation? Why does that conversation relfect something true about the real-world situation? Is the conversation meant to be some kind of metaphor? Because you know the point you're trying to make, the meaning of your comment is clear to you. But to someone who doesn't start out knowing what that point is meant to be, they don't have anything to go on.
- martin_a 8y agoYou can't grasp the meaning of a metaphor, put it in context with the headline and a fictional dialog and think that his communication skills are bad? Maybe yours are. German spy agencies are known to work with/for US intelligence without any hesitations. There was little or rather no consequences at all following the disclosures made by Snowden, although even chancellor Merkels smartphone was wiretapped. This history (see, it's more about knowing something about politics and history) has lead to the impression that Germany will mostly follow American pressure blindly. Coupled with the total lack of solid reasons not to use Huawei, this thing just looks like a "don't buy from the Chinese"-request from the US and Cisco. With such obscure things like former BND chief Schindler saying that Huawei tech is "one and a half to two years more advanced than ours" [0] and that he fears there would be dependence on Chinese tech (and not on US tech anymore). This is what it's all about. It's not about security, it's about money. As always. [0] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/5G-Frueher-BND-Chef-warnt-vor-Netzausbau-mit-Huawei-Technik-4307543.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/5G-Frueher-BND-Chef-...
- jamesrcole 8y agoThat comment is presumably a reference to something, but it's completely meaningless to someone (like me) who doesn't know that reference. They could have made the same point in a way that more people could understand.
- ElBarto 8y agoMy comment was crystal clear. It is as plain a reference to American influence as can be, nothing more.
- jamesrcole 8y agoIt is literally meaningless to me. I have no idea what it is trying to convey.
- ElBarto 8y agoTake your time.
- ardy42 8y agoIt's innuendo implying that the Germans are nothing but American running dogs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_dog
- ElBarto 8y agoThere's no innuendo in my comment and the use of the term "running dog" is all yours, not mine. America's influence over Germany is public and not covert. I could say exactly the same about Japan, for example.
- phil9987 8y agoIt's easy to point at Huawei and say 'they are not trustworthy'. The question is, what alternatives are out there and can they deliver?
- Maakuth 8y agoNokia and Ericsson are the other big 5G vendors. I don't know of any problems in their ability to deliver.
- Entalpi 8y agoBesides both are old companies with solid reputations in two stable democracies.
- rjzzleep 8y agoEricsson, has big parts of their 5G R&D in Germany I'm sure they have their fair share of government ties. Tools in this context sounds a lot like: - I'll have my favored vendor draft the RFB - Have my favored vendor write the only RFP that matches the RFB - pretend there is competition. This is probably the US telling Germany what to do. They're the junior partner anyway. Giving China access to large parts of their telco infrastructure isn't something either country wants to do. I can understand why, but just saying that probably won't fly with the WTO
- johnnycab 8y agoThe reality is slightly different. https://www.lightreading.com/mobile/5g/huawei-muscle-puts-ericsson-nokia-on-5g-back-foot-in-europe---sources/d/d-id/749474 https://www.lightreading.com/mobile/5g/huawei-muscle-puts-er...
- 52-6F-62 8y agoThis is the direction some major Canadian telecoms have been going. I’m not sure if they’ve all changed their plans, but at least one or two of them have already made this choice and have used them in the past. Never heard of any problems in delivering.
- Nokinside 8y ago
- stkdump 8y ago> An outright ban on Huawei is seen as legally impossible, but German officials are looking at tools that would have the same effect. How can 'tools' with the effect of a ban be legal, when a ban isn't?
- wereHamster 8y agoWrite the requirements such that the company has no chance to comply with them.
- ElBarto 8y agoFriendly advice to German telecom companies's CEOs can be an effective 'tool'... But must guess is that Germany will be very careful and still let Huawei have a footprint in the country because Germany is a heavy investor in China for decades, and Huawei actually moved their EU HQ from the UK to Germany. They will want to stay on good enough terms with China.
- sbx320 8y agoThe usual approach would be to define requirements in a way that are unsuitable for the specific vendor you want to get rid of. This is more common the other way around, where a government wants a specific company to do a job, but is required to issue a public call for bids. In that case the requirements are just written exactly for that specific company.
- expertentipp 8y agoWhy they are so obssesed with 5g?! One traveling on the Berlin S-Bahn ring receives EDGE mobile connection. Let me guess - the only trustworthy and reliable partner is T-Mobile?
- yorwba 8y agoIt's a new frequency space that can be auctioned off, so they can try to set new rules requiring expansion of coverage and local roaming. So in theory the exact opposite of "the only trustworthy and reliable partner is T-Mobile." Of course none of the triopoly like that proposal, so it's not clear yet whether those new rules will actually be implemented or not. If it weren't for these political considerations, expanding 3G coverage instead would be cheaper and likely good enough for most applications. Especially the self driving car stuff where 5G is always touted as necessary: if it can't work without constant network connection, it's not safe enough to be deployed on the streets.
- expertentipp 8y ago> So in theory the exact opposite of "the only trustworthy and reliable partner is T-Mobile." My last sentence was was /s, obviously. > Especially the self driving car stuff where 5G is always touted as necessary: Germany must the only country where the development of 5G is not motivated by providing better connectivity to the citizens, but by.... the interests of automotive industry. The oligopoly is strong.
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- deugtniet 8y agoI think there is one reason why western governments are opposed to Huawei systems in their communications networks. Western governments have historically had more trust in the US being a partner they can rely on, which is not the case (yet) for the Chinese. All governments spy on each other, and they do whatever is necessary for their spying needs, the US, European nations as well as the Chinese. And I bet this includes exploiting Huawei/Cisco/Nokia/Motorolla hardware. Only difference is in this case for Germany: The US is more trusted than the Chinese. Thus the US/Europe get more leeway in these hardware purchases.
- guitarbill 8y ago"trusted" is a very optimistic way of putting it. but better the devil you know (e.g. Cisco/NSA) than the devil you don't.
- _trampeltier 8y agoThat's very true. But also today all telco company's are really private company's and so the government can't tell them so easy buy this because we like to spy our own people.
- kamarg 8y agoAt least in the US, I think it's easier than you think for the government to get what they want from the telcos. AT&T and their retroactive immunity set a pretty strong example that if you play nice with the government bad things won't happen to you.
- mrweasel 8y agoWhile I agree that Huawei shouldn't be trusted, I find it hypocritical that western governments don't mind their own companies working with Huawei to install western build surveillance hardware and software in Huawei managed networks.
- frotak 8y agoWestern governments have historically been allied with and have had intelligence sharing and cooperation arrangements with the U.S. There is a general alignment of Western intelligence agencies as a cooperative group against the antagonism of China (and Russia, NK, etc) It isn't just "everybody spies" - it's "we are actively engaged in an adversarial relationship together against this other group"
- ThJ 8y agoHuawei is an interesting case. It normally isn't a problem to operate out of a country like China, but telecommunications infrastructure is sensitive. We are essentially seeing a rare case of differences in political systems having real-world effects on the export of goods. If China had the same relationship to the West as today, but stronger legal protections, this wouldn't be an issue at all, I suspect.
- cyphunk 8y agoalso if in the future we actually make cellular standards where encryption isn't demarcated at the tower and instead setup e2e between consumer devices, some risks are mitigated it's really a shame that with both 4g and 5g standards bodies did not already work on this.
- ardy42 8y ago> instead setup e2e between consumer devices, some risks are mitigated Only some, though. The metadata will still be there to be collected, which I understand is more valuable than you'd assume on first glance.
- Sylamore 8y agoMetadata is more than enough: https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/ https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metad...
- ngcc_hk 8y agoCan’t be trusted. China should not as well. Use huawei by china and Cisco by USA. Qed
- chapium 8y ago"it would be hard to work with a company that cooperates with its national secret service. " Doesn't every telecom company cooperate with its home government? I see a lot of doubt cast towards Huawei's behavior, but how about some evidence?
- jmakov 8y agoWhat about e2e encryption and then you don't have to care about the infrastructure?
- throw2016 8y agoThis is a witch hunt that will undermine confidence in the global economic system. Everything one can accuse Huawei of can be applied against any tech company - and for some with hard evidence and most here know. This can easily backfire with tech companies being banned and excluded from markets on frivolous grounds without due process in the same way. It cannot just be some can undermine competition and limit access to markets with scaremongering and wild allegations. If free markets and competition are mere political constructs to benefit a few then the whole system is effectively over.