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To put this in perspective, there are about 8 parking spaces for every car in the US [0]. A parking lot costs about $5,000 to $50,000 per space, depending on if

To put this in perspective, there are about 8 parking spaces for every car in the US [0]. A parking lot costs about $5,000 to $50,000 per space, depending on if it’s a gravel lot vs a parking garage. Yet parking lot operators and rental car companies are still able to make a profit. 0: https://www.nrdc.org/experts/david-b-goldstein/does-every-car-need-8-parking-spaces-ride-sharing-can-save-emissions https://www.nrdc.org/experts/david-b-goldstein/does-every-ca... Edited to remove sarcastic wording.

ceejayoz 8y ago
That $5-50k is amortized over decades, though. Bird's scooters cost ~$500, probably make under a buck a ride in profits, and I suspect their average lifetime is well under 500 rides.
- shereadsthenews 8y ago
  Last I heard lime was making $28 over the lifetime of a scooter.
- Whiteskin_Kanye 8y ago
  It looks like they are losing money per scooter [0]. I doubt the strong markets make enough to offset the losing ones. [0] https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last-long https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last...
- clairity 8y ago
  $500 is the retail price (that's how much i paid for the xiaomi m365 they used to use). someone estimated that it's ~$300 per scooter, which i find more believable. they are probably (unit) profitable (or operationally cabable of being so), otherwise, they wouldn't have raised a $300MM series C last year.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    We've seen plenty of wildly unprofitable companies make it far past Series C. Lyft is on its 19th round and lost a billion on two billion dollars revenue in 2018.
    - pmart123 8y ago
      At least you had to build a two-sided network. Without the driver, there literally is no barrier to entry, which is funny when you think about all the future rideshare "profitability" once you have self-driving cars...
    - clairity 8y ago
      yes, but the unit economics probably pencil out, meaning the direct costs of providing the service (distribution, charging, maintenance, and support) are paid for by the revenue. that’s unit profitability. but they’re probably losing money in capital costs and overhead (marketing and the like), so overall unprofitable. lyft was (is) principally both a hedge against uber and a way for VCs that didn’t get into uber (ever or early enough) to make a bet in the space (the top 2-3 companies in a new market usually survive to a decent exit), so profitability wasn’t an important metric for funding (but the probability of surviving to exit very much was).
  - joejerryronnie 8y ago
    >they are probably (unit) profitable (or operationally cabable of being so), otherwise, they wouldn't have raised a $300MM series C last year. Bwahahahaha, wooo, thanks for the laugh, I needed that after a long day!
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    On sale for US$410 retail right now, including shipping to EU (possibly from EU warehouse) if you choose the Fast-08 warehouse: https://www.gearbest.com/skateboard/pp_596618.html https://www.gearbest.com/skateboard/pp_596618.html
    - monksy 8y ago
      Don't use Gearbest. They're incredibly shady, and have terrible customer service. I've never had the issues that I had with gearbest with a vender on Aliexpress. Also Xiaomi even has a store on ali.
- Twirrim 8y ago
  Someone discovered shared scooters don't last long, and thus don't make anything even remotely approaching a profit. https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last-long https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last...
  - pmart123 8y ago
    When a startup is roughly a year old, and its rival just raised $300M, alarm bells should go off in investor's heads, "If both these companies started a year ago, and it only takes $300M to fund the next one, and none of them have IP or even make their own scooter, maybe we shouldn't do this since there are no barriers to entry."
    - AndrewKemendo 8y ago
      only takes 300M That seems like quite the barrier to me. Also crazy to think that 1/3 of a billion dollars is considered trivial barrier.
      - pmart123 8y ago
        https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/tiger-global-closes-biggest-venture-fund-of-the-decade https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/tiger-global-closes-bigg... If you throw in NEA's new fund, that's five funds where $300M is less than 10% if they did the whole round, and if the economics are great, a bunch of growth equity funds. It's crazy to me that you'd invest that much without having more data on the unit economics given none of these companies even have an advantage on making the underlying scooter. The more scooters you have and the more market share you have, the faster your bleed money. If the unit economics were great with off the rack scooters, what's to stop Lyft/Uber from adding a scooter option given they already have the demand side of "trying to get somewhere"?
    - Twirrim 8y ago
      I was looking at the figures in that article and was just horrified at the sheer environmental impact of this whole fiasco.
- pmart123 8y ago
  Also, some of those are probably empty lots in places like NYC or Chicago where they can be better monetized once the land is rezoned, etc.
WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
If people weren't bad actors, I bet you a ride sharing company where you can just get into a car and drive around with it would make big money. Just charge per minute and allow the owner to track the position continuously.
- jimmy1 8y ago
  How do you think rental car companies stay in business? You are still liable for the damage to the car if you blatantly abuse it, and you are still liable for property damage or accidents in states that require insurance and insure the driver. This is just a car rental for a shorter amount of time. And in D.C. we had something called ZipCar which was pretty close to that.
  - hawaiianbrah 8y ago
    Is ZipCar no longer in DC? They’re in every state I’ve been to. I assume they’re in all of them.
    - jimmy1 8y ago
      Ah sorry if it came out that way, it is I that am no longer in D.C.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    When I was in the bay area zipcars were consistently driven by some of the worst drivers on the road. It's like tourists in rental cars but worse, since these people often have never owned a car and drive very infrequently. I know people who never drove until their 30s then got a drivers license just to access zipcars. They're exceptionally bad drivers.
    - jimmy1 8y ago
      Right but it doesn't matter if they are bad drivers. They are still liable for damages and any accidents they cause. If you get in a wreck/get a ticket in a ZipCar, it is still your insurance that goes up, and points on your license, and you have to pay the ticket.
loblollyboy 8y ago
That big lot by the abandoned k-mart in Rockford has a lot of spaces but none of them are within walking distance of the restaurant I’m supposed to meet my friends at in Chicago.
- jdavis703 8y ago
  In transit planning the walk shed for transit extends from one mile (that seems to be very optimistic high density east coast planning) to a quarter mile (more realistic in California’s cities) away from the station. By that same metric there should be plenty of parking spaces within a quarter mile of where you’re trying to dine. There’s also likely the parking space you have at home, and the space you have at work (assuming that like most Americans your job offers free parking).

ceejayoz 8y ago

That $5-50k is amortized over decades, though. Bird's scooters cost ~$500, probably make under a buck a ride in profits, and I suspect their average lifetime is well under 500 rides.

shereadsthenews 8y ago
Last I heard lime was making $28 over the lifetime of a scooter.
Whiteskin_Kanye 8y ago
It looks like they are losing money per scooter [0]. I doubt the strong markets make enough to offset the losing ones. [0] https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last-long https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last...
clairity 8y ago
$500 is the retail price (that's how much i paid for the xiaomi m365 they used to use). someone estimated that it's ~$300 per scooter, which i find more believable. they are probably (unit) profitable (or operationally cabable of being so), otherwise, they wouldn't have raised a $300MM series C last year.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  We've seen plenty of wildly unprofitable companies make it far past Series C. Lyft is on its 19th round and lost a billion on two billion dollars revenue in 2018.
  - pmart123 8y ago
    At least you had to build a two-sided network. Without the driver, there literally is no barrier to entry, which is funny when you think about all the future rideshare "profitability" once you have self-driving cars...
  - clairity 8y ago
    yes, but the unit economics probably pencil out, meaning the direct costs of providing the service (distribution, charging, maintenance, and support) are paid for by the revenue. that’s unit profitability. but they’re probably losing money in capital costs and overhead (marketing and the like), so overall unprofitable. lyft was (is) principally both a hedge against uber and a way for VCs that didn’t get into uber (ever or early enough) to make a bet in the space (the top 2-3 companies in a new market usually survive to a decent exit), so profitability wasn’t an important metric for funding (but the probability of surviving to exit very much was).
- joejerryronnie 8y ago
  >they are probably (unit) profitable (or operationally cabable of being so), otherwise, they wouldn't have raised a $300MM series C last year. Bwahahahaha, wooo, thanks for the laugh, I needed that after a long day!
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  On sale for US$410 retail right now, including shipping to EU (possibly from EU warehouse) if you choose the Fast-08 warehouse: https://www.gearbest.com/skateboard/pp_596618.html https://www.gearbest.com/skateboard/pp_596618.html
  - monksy 8y ago
    Don't use Gearbest. They're incredibly shady, and have terrible customer service. I've never had the issues that I had with gearbest with a vender on Aliexpress. Also Xiaomi even has a store on ali.
Twirrim 8y ago
Someone discovered shared scooters don't last long, and thus don't make anything even remotely approaching a profit. https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last-long https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last...
- pmart123 8y ago
  When a startup is roughly a year old, and its rival just raised $300M, alarm bells should go off in investor's heads, "If both these companies started a year ago, and it only takes $300M to fund the next one, and none of them have IP or even make their own scooter, maybe we shouldn't do this since there are no barriers to entry."
  - AndrewKemendo 8y ago
    only takes 300M That seems like quite the barrier to me. Also crazy to think that 1/3 of a billion dollars is considered trivial barrier.
    - pmart123 8y ago
      https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/tiger-global-closes-biggest-venture-fund-of-the-decade https://pitchbook.com/news/articles/tiger-global-closes-bigg... If you throw in NEA's new fund, that's five funds where $300M is less than 10% if they did the whole round, and if the economics are great, a bunch of growth equity funds. It's crazy to me that you'd invest that much without having more data on the unit economics given none of these companies even have an advantage on making the underlying scooter. The more scooters you have and the more market share you have, the faster your bleed money. If the unit economics were great with off the rack scooters, what's to stop Lyft/Uber from adding a scooter option given they already have the demand side of "trying to get somewhere"?
  - Twirrim 8y ago
    I was looking at the figures in that article and was just horrified at the sheer environmental impact of this whole fiasco.
pmart123 8y ago
Also, some of those are probably empty lots in places like NYC or Chicago where they can be better monetized once the land is rezoned, etc.

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago

If people weren't bad actors, I bet you a ride sharing company where you can just get into a car and drive around with it would make big money. Just charge per minute and allow the owner to track the position continuously.

jimmy1 8y ago
How do you think rental car companies stay in business? You are still liable for the damage to the car if you blatantly abuse it, and you are still liable for property damage or accidents in states that require insurance and insure the driver. This is just a car rental for a shorter amount of time. And in D.C. we had something called ZipCar which was pretty close to that.
- hawaiianbrah 8y ago
  Is ZipCar no longer in DC? They’re in every state I’ve been to. I assume they’re in all of them.
  - jimmy1 8y ago
    Ah sorry if it came out that way, it is I that am no longer in D.C.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  When I was in the bay area zipcars were consistently driven by some of the worst drivers on the road. It's like tourists in rental cars but worse, since these people often have never owned a car and drive very infrequently. I know people who never drove until their 30s then got a drivers license just to access zipcars. They're exceptionally bad drivers.
  - jimmy1 8y ago
    Right but it doesn't matter if they are bad drivers. They are still liable for damages and any accidents they cause. If you get in a wreck/get a ticket in a ZipCar, it is still your insurance that goes up, and points on your license, and you have to pay the ticket.

loblollyboy 8y ago

That big lot by the abandoned k-mart in Rockford has a lot of spaces but none of them are within walking distance of the restaurant I’m supposed to meet my friends at in Chicago.

jdavis703 8y ago
In transit planning the walk shed for transit extends from one mile (that seems to be very optimistic high density east coast planning) to a quarter mile (more realistic in California’s cities) away from the station. By that same metric there should be plenty of parking spaces within a quarter mile of where you’re trying to dine. There’s also likely the parking space you have at home, and the space you have at work (assuming that like most Americans your job offers free parking).