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It says the damaged flight recorder was sent to France. Do they have a better recovery/repair team than, say, the US’ FAA and NTSB, or is it more likely just be

by d1str0 8y ago

It says the damaged flight recorder was sent to France. Do they have a better recovery/repair team than, say, the US’ FAA and NTSB, or is it more likely just because France is much closer to the crash site?

agumonkey 8y ago
I don't recall why but I think MH370 recorder was also sent to France. Probably to avoid conflict of interests ?
- godarderik 8y ago
  They never found MH370.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    They found some purported (maybe confirmed?) wreckage did they not? Seat cushions and other lightweight parts washed up on a beach somewhere? But never the flight recorders.
- yoramv 8y ago
  You mean MH17?? MH370 was never found.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    maybe it was the potential piece of fuselage found later then ?
- roywiggins 8y ago
  The MH17 investigation was done by the Dutch mostly- the plane had departed from there. I think the black box was handled by British investigators: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10996400/MH17-Black-box-reveals-Malaysia-Airlines-suffered-massive-explosive-decompression.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10...
- rmcpherson 8y ago
  The debris found in Reunion island was likely handled by France as it is a French overseas department. Debris photos here: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/mh370-latest-news-malaysia-airlines-missing-plane-final-report-pilot-terrorism-crash-a8469926.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/mh370-l...
xvf22 8y ago
Ethiopia insisted it go to a third party. They tried Germany first but they didn't have the equipment so they then went to France's BEA[1]. [1] https://gulfnews.com/world/ethiopian-airlines-crash-germany-rejects-analysis-of-black-box-france-accepts-1.1552543599689 https://gulfnews.com/world/ethiopian-airlines-crash-germany-...
overlordalex 8y ago
I've read that they don't want to send it to the USA because of the possibility of Boeing to unduly influence the investigation. http://fortune.com/2019/03/13/ethiopian-air-crash-black-boxes/ http://fortune.com/2019/03/13/ethiopian-air-crash-black-boxe... > but Ethiopian authorities would prefer to work with the U.K.’s Air Accidents Investigation Branch to ensure that U.S. experts won’t have undue influence in the probe of the American-made plane. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-13/ethiopia-to-send-737-s-black-boxes-to-europe-in-snub-to-u-s https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-13/ethiopia-... > The choice of Europe over the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board for the analysis of the black boxes is a strategic decision for Ethiopian Airlines and the nation’s government, said Asrat Begashaw, the carrier’s public relations director.
- ams6110 8y ago
  I would never have held up Ethiopia as the model of incorruptibility. And the NTSB is generally thought to be above reproach. But I guess it's hard to argue that given two competent agencies, the one with the least perceived conflict of interest should do the work.
- dboreham 8y ago
  The airline CEO also cited physical distance (and perhaps time zone distance) as a benefit of Europe vs US.
  - vt240 8y ago
    The last loss of aircraft ETA was involved with, 737-800 ET409 in Lebanon, was also sent to BEA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_409 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_409
- philpem 8y ago
  Given Boeing's behaviour thus far (and the other HN thread about the jackscrew issue they covered up some years back), I can't say I blame them. With that said, AIAB has just as formidable a reputation as the FAA. If the truth is there, they'll find it.
DevX101 8y ago
I absolutely agree with not giving the blackbox to the U.S. There is definitely a possibility of a conflict of interest with the F.A.A. not being fully forthcoming. U.S. politicians have a strong interest to keep the U.S. aviation industry strong and Id be surprised if there was absolutely zero interference between politicians and the F.A.A. conducting a fair investigation. Also, the F.A.A. has already been aware that there were issues with this plane (software fixes were being worked on), but the planes continued to fly. If it turns out that the information already known to them BEFORE the latest crash should have been sufficient to call for a grounding, I could see them attempting to cover their ass.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Can't they just upload all the data somewhere and then any air authority can do as they wish with it?
  - bluGill 8y ago
    Who? I want the first person to open the box to get the data be fully trustworthy. That person can upload the data. If the first person to open the box is evil they can substitute whatever data they want. We are talking about governments here so the conspiracy theory that the person who opened the box substituted a different set of data is actually possible. Conspiracy theory territory for sure, so you really want to make sure that a fully trusted third party is involved. France seems as good as anyone to fit that bill.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      Yes, I was thinking the trusted party with authority to open the box could dd whatever storage is in there and share the image(s) publicly. If you were worried about conspiracies then multiple aviation authorities, or government departments, could send observers to watch the opening and imaging.
- skeletonjelly 8y ago
  Not just that but the Secretary of Transportation is ex Boeing I believe
Mr_Shiba 8y ago
Can't blame them. US institutions have been slowly poisoned by the cancer call lobbying. You have regulators with interest ties to the industry they have to supposedly regulate all across most agencies.
- bluGill 8y ago
  It isn't just the US, it is everyone in some form. The only people who understand an topic well enough to regulate it are insiders to the industry. The rest of us have opinions that are often misinformed.
tbabb 8y ago
Many things might look like smoke to a layperson, but aren't, like contrails or [wingtip vortices](https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2018/1-researchexam.jpg https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hire...).

by d1str0 8y ago

agumonkey 8y ago

I don't recall why but I think MH370 recorder was also sent to France. Probably to avoid conflict of interests ?

godarderik 8y ago
They never found MH370.
- ams6110 8y ago
  They found some purported (maybe confirmed?) wreckage did they not? Seat cushions and other lightweight parts washed up on a beach somewhere? But never the flight recorders.
yoramv 8y ago
You mean MH17?? MH370 was never found.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  maybe it was the potential piece of fuselage found later then ?
roywiggins 8y ago
The MH17 investigation was done by the Dutch mostly- the plane had departed from there. I think the black box was handled by British investigators: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10996400/MH17-Black-box-reveals-Malaysia-Airlines-suffered-massive-explosive-decompression.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10...
rmcpherson 8y ago
The debris found in Reunion island was likely handled by France as it is a French overseas department. Debris photos here: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/mh370-latest-news-malaysia-airlines-missing-plane-final-report-pilot-terrorism-crash-a8469926.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/mh370-l...

xvf22 8y ago

Ethiopia insisted it go to a third party. They tried Germany first but they didn't have the equipment so they then went to France's BEA[1]. [1] https://gulfnews.com/world/ethiopian-airlines-crash-germany-rejects-analysis-of-black-box-france-accepts-1.1552543599689 https://gulfnews.com/world/ethiopian-airlines-crash-germany-...

overlordalex 8y ago

I've read that they don't want to send it to the USA because of the possibility of Boeing to unduly influence the investigation. http://fortune.com/2019/03/13/ethiopian-air-crash-black-boxes/ http://fortune.com/2019/03/13/ethiopian-air-crash-black-boxe... > but Ethiopian authorities would prefer to work with the U.K.’s Air Accidents Investigation Branch to ensure that U.S. experts won’t have undue influence in the probe of the American-made plane. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-13/ethiopia-to-send-737-s-black-boxes-to-europe-in-snub-to-u-s https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-13/ethiopia-... > The choice of Europe over the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board for the analysis of the black boxes is a strategic decision for Ethiopian Airlines and the nation’s government, said Asrat Begashaw, the carrier’s public relations director.

ams6110 8y ago
I would never have held up Ethiopia as the model of incorruptibility. And the NTSB is generally thought to be above reproach. But I guess it's hard to argue that given two competent agencies, the one with the least perceived conflict of interest should do the work.
dboreham 8y ago
The airline CEO also cited physical distance (and perhaps time zone distance) as a benefit of Europe vs US.
- vt240 8y ago
  The last loss of aircraft ETA was involved with, 737-800 ET409 in Lebanon, was also sent to BEA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_409 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_409
philpem 8y ago
Given Boeing's behaviour thus far (and the other HN thread about the jackscrew issue they covered up some years back), I can't say I blame them. With that said, AIAB has just as formidable a reputation as the FAA. If the truth is there, they'll find it.

DevX101 8y ago

I absolutely agree with not giving the blackbox to the U.S. There is definitely a possibility of a conflict of interest with the F.A.A. not being fully forthcoming. U.S. politicians have a strong interest to keep the U.S. aviation industry strong and Id be surprised if there was absolutely zero interference between politicians and the F.A.A. conducting a fair investigation. Also, the F.A.A. has already been aware that there were issues with this plane (software fixes were being worked on), but the planes continued to fly. If it turns out that the information already known to them BEFORE the latest crash should have been sufficient to call for a grounding, I could see them attempting to cover their ass.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Can't they just upload all the data somewhere and then any air authority can do as they wish with it?
- bluGill 8y ago
  Who? I want the first person to open the box to get the data be fully trustworthy. That person can upload the data. If the first person to open the box is evil they can substitute whatever data they want. We are talking about governments here so the conspiracy theory that the person who opened the box substituted a different set of data is actually possible. Conspiracy theory territory for sure, so you really want to make sure that a fully trusted third party is involved. France seems as good as anyone to fit that bill.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    Yes, I was thinking the trusted party with authority to open the box could dd whatever storage is in there and share the image(s) publicly. If you were worried about conspiracies then multiple aviation authorities, or government departments, could send observers to watch the opening and imaging.
skeletonjelly 8y ago
Not just that but the Secretary of Transportation is ex Boeing I believe

Mr_Shiba 8y ago

Can't blame them. US institutions have been slowly poisoned by the cancer call lobbying. You have regulators with interest ties to the industry they have to supposedly regulate all across most agencies.

bluGill 8y ago
It isn't just the US, it is everyone in some form. The only people who understand an topic well enough to regulate it are insiders to the industry. The rest of us have opinions that are often misinformed.

tbabb 8y ago

Many things might look like smoke to a layperson, but aren't, like contrails or [wingtip vortices](https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2018/1-researchexam.jpg https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hire...).