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And what if someone's unable to work? > Humans are rational creatures I think this claim needs to be backed up too. There is a lot of evidence indicating that

And what if someone's unable to work? > Humans are rational creatures I think this claim needs to be backed up too. There is a lot of evidence indicating that we're incredibly irrational.

LockNess0 8y ago
I don't see this as being the role of society, to provide a backstop for everyone. Make the difficulty of getting employed and earning an income as easy as possible, and the jobs and work will follow. If people are truly physically unable to work, they should rely on their family, community, religion or charity to provide for them. The welfare state is too costly to maintain and too rife with fraud. I suspect that the biggest cause of disability is simply obesity. Government has a role to clean up the food supply and agricultural system, not to give handouts to millions of people affected by its dysfunction.
- chillwaves 8y ago
  > family, community, religion or charity If these are not enough?
  - chii 8y ago
    People still got by in the past before govt welfare existed. What happened today?
    - lenticular 8y ago
      They didn't, actually. Severe poverty was widespread on a scale we don't really see today. Not having SS, especially, lead to extreme destitution being common among the elderly.
    - matthewmacleod 8y ago
      I mean, many of them died. Or ended up in the workhouse.
    - walshemj 8y ago
      They did not "get by" they died or where incarcerated on workhouses. Many of the BBC who do you think you are series have terrible stories of peoples ancestors in workhouses.
- jjoonathan 8y ago
  > Make the difficulty of getting employed and earning an income as easy as possible, and the jobs and work will follow. Why should they? Demand elasticity is empirically very low for minimum wage workers. Lowering minimum wage a small amount does not create jobs, just as raising it a small amount does not eliminate them. See: the inverted funnel plot of Doucouliagos and Stanley https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/02/18/business/economy/18economix-minimum/18economix-minimum-blog480.png https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/02/18/business/economy/... https://www.ctdol.state.ct.us/lweab/Doucougliagos%20&%20Stanley%20Publication%20Selection%20Bias%20in%20Min%20Wage%20Research-A%20Metaregression%20Analysis.pdf https://www.ctdol.state.ct.us/lweab/Doucougliagos%20&%20Stan...
- DrJosiah 8y ago
  > community Um, welfare, disability, social security, medicare, ... and all of the other "health and human services" related governmental programs are literally our entire country coming together as a community, to "provide for them". God, you're so close. /r/selfawarewolves is calling you.
- Diederich 8y ago
  Forbidden meta comment: While I disagree with you, I disagree with the amount of down-voting you're receiving even more. It's unfortunate that reasonably stated views that disagree with the basic frequency of the given echo chamber are so discouraged.
- NavyNuke 8y ago
  > I suspect that the biggest cause of disability is simply obesity. Government has a role to clean up the food supply and agricultural system, not to give handouts to millions of people affected by its dysfunction. While I somewhat agree with your sentiment, and I'm not a big fan of the fact that these obese people are weighing down (no pun intended) our health care system, there really isn't a good solution that I can think of that doesn't limit these fat people's ability to make decisions about what they eat and how physically active they are day to day. I'd rather have a bunch of fatties making terrible health decisions and causing more stress on our healthcare system than having some Government representative telling people what they can or cannot do in the name of protecting them and keeping them healthy...

And what if someone's unable to work? > Humans are rational creatures I think this claim needs to be backed up too. There is a lot of evidence indicating that we're incredibly irrational.

LockNess0 8y ago

I don't see this as being the role of society, to provide a backstop for everyone. Make the difficulty of getting employed and earning an income as easy as possible, and the jobs and work will follow. If people are truly physically unable to work, they should rely on their family, community, religion or charity to provide for them. The welfare state is too costly to maintain and too rife with fraud. I suspect that the biggest cause of disability is simply obesity. Government has a role to clean up the food supply and agricultural system, not to give handouts to millions of people affected by its dysfunction.

chillwaves 8y ago
> family, community, religion or charity If these are not enough?
- chii 8y ago
  People still got by in the past before govt welfare existed. What happened today?
  - lenticular 8y ago
    They didn't, actually. Severe poverty was widespread on a scale we don't really see today. Not having SS, especially, lead to extreme destitution being common among the elderly.
  - matthewmacleod 8y ago
    I mean, many of them died. Or ended up in the workhouse.
  - walshemj 8y ago
    They did not "get by" they died or where incarcerated on workhouses. Many of the BBC who do you think you are series have terrible stories of peoples ancestors in workhouses.
jjoonathan 8y ago
> Make the difficulty of getting employed and earning an income as easy as possible, and the jobs and work will follow. Why should they? Demand elasticity is empirically very low for minimum wage workers. Lowering minimum wage a small amount does not create jobs, just as raising it a small amount does not eliminate them. See: the inverted funnel plot of Doucouliagos and Stanley https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/02/18/business/economy/18economix-minimum/18economix-minimum-blog480.png https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/02/18/business/economy/... https://www.ctdol.state.ct.us/lweab/Doucougliagos%20&%20Stanley%20Publication%20Selection%20Bias%20in%20Min%20Wage%20Research-A%20Metaregression%20Analysis.pdf https://www.ctdol.state.ct.us/lweab/Doucougliagos%20&%20Stan...
DrJosiah 8y ago
> community Um, welfare, disability, social security, medicare, ... and all of the other "health and human services" related governmental programs are literally our entire country coming together as a community, to "provide for them". God, you're so close. /r/selfawarewolves is calling you.
Diederich 8y ago
Forbidden meta comment: While I disagree with you, I disagree with the amount of down-voting you're receiving even more. It's unfortunate that reasonably stated views that disagree with the basic frequency of the given echo chamber are so discouraged.
NavyNuke 8y ago
> I suspect that the biggest cause of disability is simply obesity. Government has a role to clean up the food supply and agricultural system, not to give handouts to millions of people affected by its dysfunction. While I somewhat agree with your sentiment, and I'm not a big fan of the fact that these obese people are weighing down (no pun intended) our health care system, there really isn't a good solution that I can think of that doesn't limit these fat people's ability to make decisions about what they eat and how physically active they are day to day. I'd rather have a bunch of fatties making terrible health decisions and causing more stress on our healthcare system than having some Government representative telling people what they can or cannot do in the name of protecting them and keeping them healthy...