5 ms·

Intrusive Technology Profiling Internet Users on the Verge of Comeback

28 points by cshenoy 16y ago

Torn 16y ago
Lots of related discussion over on NoDPI: https://nodpi.org/ https://nodpi.org/ (edit: seems down at the moment) I actually wrote my LLM. Cyberlaw dissertation on Phorm and the impacts of behavioural advertising.. interesting to see they're still around after getting wrist-slapped by the EU.
epochwolf 16y ago
Looks like I'll have to start using my vpn at home too.
agl 16y ago
After reading the article I'm unclear about how the ads are served: "He says his company also has been placing ads on various websites to test the ad-placement technology and build up a base of advertisers, which now number about 100,000." Does this mean that they're manipulating the HTML of the site to inject ads, or that they're purchasing spots via an ad network and somehow manipulating those, specific, requests?
- nobody_nowhere 16y ago
  No need -- they can target individual users already via realtime ad exchanges, like Google AdX. If they're inspecting packets, they can match users to the exchanges' cookies and bid on them.
extension 16y ago
So, if PR is the only thing holding these guys back then surely many ISPs are already doing this secretly, right? Personally, I encourage everyone to fully exploit any and all data they can get their hands on, for whatever purpose interests them. Until everything is encrypted end-to-end, somebody will always be doing it anyway. The sooner the general public figures that out and starts channeling their outrage into a real solution, the better.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  Wow, this is getting up votes? I encourage everyone to fully exploit any and all data they can get their hands on I think SAP found out where this can lead. A piece of data doesn't have to be under lock and key for it to not belong to you. Moreover, it's not really that hard to be caught when you start scanning "all the data you can get your hands on" rather than all the data you have a legal right to look at. Edit: ISP could only benefit by doing this publicly since they have to actively sell this to ad-buyers to make money. And it would cost a bit of money to do.
  - extension 16y ago
    I don't encourage it because I think it's a nice thing to do. I just have zero faith in niceness, or the general public's perception of what is nice, to keep them secure. If all parties were transparent about their self-interest, the nature and scope of the problem would become much more clear to everyone. Instead, we spend all our energy going after the occasional red herring with a curly mustache. Facebook looking at your referer header? Evil! Google sniffing open wifi? Dastardly! Gmail scraping email for adsense keywords? Insidious! Anything that contributes to this theatre is just helping to keep the masses ignorant.
- wladimir 16y ago
  You have a point here. 1) Everything that makes people aware, or gives media attention to how easily they leak data or how easy it is to manipulate non-encrypted data is good. It will encourage people to use more secure services. 2) It will encourage services to finally start using SSL or other encrypted protocols which in the end will be good for everyone. After all, you don't want the ISP to be inserting ads in your site.
danielamitay 16y ago
If we are going to live with ads, they might as well be properly targeted. My only complaint is that most of the general public doesn't understand what they are opting in for, and those that try to understand it mistake it for something much more nefarious than it actually is.
- earl 16y ago
  Much more nefarious? Full browsing history, full access to email for many people, all unencrypted IM conversations, and your full search history unless your using https at google or duckduckgo? I can't imagine why people might be upset.
  - danielamitay 16y ago
    Quote: "Both also say they don't collect any personal information, read email, store users' browsing histories or monitor sensitive sites such as health blogs. " And seriously? Google knows your search history ever since they started up, and use it for their own ads. You have something against your ISP knowing this information, but not Google?

28 points by cshenoy 16y ago

Torn 16y ago

Lots of related discussion over on NoDPI: https://nodpi.org/ https://nodpi.org/ (edit: seems down at the moment) I actually wrote my LLM. Cyberlaw dissertation on Phorm and the impacts of behavioural advertising.. interesting to see they're still around after getting wrist-slapped by the EU.

epochwolf 16y ago

Looks like I'll have to start using my vpn at home too.

agl 16y ago

After reading the article I'm unclear about how the ads are served: "He says his company also has been placing ads on various websites to test the ad-placement technology and build up a base of advertisers, which now number about 100,000." Does this mean that they're manipulating the HTML of the site to inject ads, or that they're purchasing spots via an ad network and somehow manipulating those, specific, requests?

nobody_nowhere 16y ago
No need -- they can target individual users already via realtime ad exchanges, like Google AdX. If they're inspecting packets, they can match users to the exchanges' cookies and bid on them.

extension 16y ago

So, if PR is the only thing holding these guys back then surely many ISPs are already doing this secretly, right? Personally, I encourage everyone to fully exploit any and all data they can get their hands on, for whatever purpose interests them. Until everything is encrypted end-to-end, somebody will always be doing it anyway. The sooner the general public figures that out and starts channeling their outrage into a real solution, the better.

joe_the_user 16y ago
Wow, this is getting up votes? I encourage everyone to fully exploit any and all data they can get their hands on I think SAP found out where this can lead. A piece of data doesn't have to be under lock and key for it to not belong to you. Moreover, it's not really that hard to be caught when you start scanning "all the data you can get your hands on" rather than all the data you have a legal right to look at. Edit: ISP could only benefit by doing this publicly since they have to actively sell this to ad-buyers to make money. And it would cost a bit of money to do.
- extension 16y ago
  I don't encourage it because I think it's a nice thing to do. I just have zero faith in niceness, or the general public's perception of what is nice, to keep them secure. If all parties were transparent about their self-interest, the nature and scope of the problem would become much more clear to everyone. Instead, we spend all our energy going after the occasional red herring with a curly mustache. Facebook looking at your referer header? Evil! Google sniffing open wifi? Dastardly! Gmail scraping email for adsense keywords? Insidious! Anything that contributes to this theatre is just helping to keep the masses ignorant.
wladimir 16y ago
You have a point here. 1) Everything that makes people aware, or gives media attention to how easily they leak data or how easy it is to manipulate non-encrypted data is good. It will encourage people to use more secure services. 2) It will encourage services to finally start using SSL or other encrypted protocols which in the end will be good for everyone. After all, you don't want the ISP to be inserting ads in your site.

danielamitay 16y ago

If we are going to live with ads, they might as well be properly targeted. My only complaint is that most of the general public doesn't understand what they are opting in for, and those that try to understand it mistake it for something much more nefarious than it actually is.

earl 16y ago
Much more nefarious? Full browsing history, full access to email for many people, all unencrypted IM conversations, and your full search history unless your using https at google or duckduckgo? I can't imagine why people might be upset.
- danielamitay 16y ago
  Quote: "Both also say they don't collect any personal information, read email, store users' browsing histories or monitor sensitive sites such as health blogs. " And seriously? Google knows your search history ever since they started up, and use it for their own ads. You have something against your ISP knowing this information, but not Google?