15 ms·

Everybody likes being part of the protected market. That's part of the problem- "Well if you're going to protect dairy, and you want my support, how about you p

by ip26 8y ago

Everybody likes being part of the protected market. That's part of the problem- "Well if you're going to protect dairy, and you want my support, how about you protect my steel too?" (repeat, repeat, repeat)

dleslie 8y ago
It's a managed market. If consumer trends in Canada shifted away from dairy it would not somehow survive. Instead, dairy farmers collaborate to avoid production waste and to coordinate for seasonal/cyclical changes in demand and production.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  It’s hard to imagine higher prices without milk users getting creative. Lots of products that should be made with butter are made with oil. Alfredo sauces made with soybean oil instead of cream. The products that have these substitutions will have a greater discount and more sales. Frozen pizza makers slacking on cheese toppings. Processed cheese. And that’s just the industrial use side.
  - dleslie 8y ago
    Interesting that your list is entirely processed foods. Probably best never to buy such products at all, and if you do, you probably aren't the sort that cares whether the fat is from butter or from canola.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      But the products exist because people buy them as cheaper substitutes, reducing dairy demand. Milk drinkers will just drink less when the price is higher (sometimes voluntarily, sometimes involuntarily).
      - dleslie 8y ago
        Or do they buy them because they're convenient? Or do they buy them because they're cheaper than restaurant or take-out alternatives? Or do they buy them because the packaging is appealing? Regardless, processed food is generally shit, everywhere. Discerning health and quality conscious consumers in any nation aren't likely to favour purchasing processed food.
gerbilly 8y ago
I'm from Canada[1] and supply management protects more than just a market. It protects the landscape too. Factory farms pollute the surface and groundwater. The big corporate players will fight hard protect their right to dump their 'externalities' (read manure) in the cheapest way possible. Sadly, because uncontaminated land and water is not accounted for in the 'market', they will likely succeed. [1] AND I grew up in a dairy farming area.
- ucaetano 8y ago
  You don't need supply management to do that. Not only that, supply management is a terrible way to do that.
  - gerbilly 8y ago
    If you meant the EPA, it looks like it isn't doing too great job of protecting the land either if peoples taps are running with manure like the article shows.
  - dleslie 8y ago
    We look and learn from our neighbours to the South, and what outcomes we see down there generates strong public support to maintain the system we have. Frankly, as a consumer, American dairy, beef, poultry and produce make me nervous.
    - gerbilly 8y ago
      I never eat any animal products when travelling in the US. They are of much lower quality, and full of hormones and additives.
    - ucaetano 8y ago
      > generates strong public support to maintain the system we have. Oh, yeah, everyone loves a protectionist market, when they're part of it...
      - 8y ago
sandworm101 8y ago
Don't mention steel in relation to US-Canada trade. Canada is extremely unhappy to see China's steel constantly exempted while Canadian steel is subject tariff. As other posters have pointed out, Canada's protected dairy market is about far more than keeping farms going. It is about regulating a stable food supply and associated external impacts.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  > Canada's protected dairy market is about far more than keeping farms going. It is about regulating a stable food supply and associated external impacts. Canadians do consume a fair amount of dairy in global terms, but honestly it's not a big part of most people's diets by calories. If dairy got more expensive for a few months, or a decade, or forever, people would just buy less of it. If it got less expensive, those inclined might buy more of it sometimes. There is no moral or practical benefit to to Canadian society at large in "stabilizing" the dairy supply, if the current regime could even be considered that.
  - dleslie 8y ago
    There's also that the Canadian Food Guide just dropped dairy as an essential food group. https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/ https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/
lancewiggs 8y ago
"American government contributed around $22.2 billion in direct and indirect subsidies to the dairy sector in 2015." That's over double the amount that New Zealand's dairy sector (grass fed, not housed in sheds) makes from exports each year. Not only is the industrial US system inefficient and subsidised, but the milk quality is poor as well. And let's not avoid the question of burping cows and Methane emissions. https://www.realagriculture.com/2018/02/u-s-dairy-subsidies-equal-73-percent-of-producer-returns-says-new-report/ https://www.realagriculture.com/2018/02/u-s-dairy-subsidies-...

by ip26 8y ago

dleslie 8y ago

It's a managed market. If consumer trends in Canada shifted away from dairy it would not somehow survive. Instead, dairy farmers collaborate to avoid production waste and to coordinate for seasonal/cyclical changes in demand and production.

Scoundreller 8y ago
It’s hard to imagine higher prices without milk users getting creative. Lots of products that should be made with butter are made with oil. Alfredo sauces made with soybean oil instead of cream. The products that have these substitutions will have a greater discount and more sales. Frozen pizza makers slacking on cheese toppings. Processed cheese. And that’s just the industrial use side.
- dleslie 8y ago
  Interesting that your list is entirely processed foods. Probably best never to buy such products at all, and if you do, you probably aren't the sort that cares whether the fat is from butter or from canola.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    But the products exist because people buy them as cheaper substitutes, reducing dairy demand. Milk drinkers will just drink less when the price is higher (sometimes voluntarily, sometimes involuntarily).
    - dleslie 8y ago
      Or do they buy them because they're convenient? Or do they buy them because they're cheaper than restaurant or take-out alternatives? Or do they buy them because the packaging is appealing? Regardless, processed food is generally shit, everywhere. Discerning health and quality conscious consumers in any nation aren't likely to favour purchasing processed food.

gerbilly 8y ago

I'm from Canada[1] and supply management protects more than just a market. It protects the landscape too. Factory farms pollute the surface and groundwater. The big corporate players will fight hard protect their right to dump their 'externalities' (read manure) in the cheapest way possible. Sadly, because uncontaminated land and water is not accounted for in the 'market', they will likely succeed. [1] AND I grew up in a dairy farming area.

ucaetano 8y ago
You don't need supply management to do that. Not only that, supply management is a terrible way to do that.
- gerbilly 8y ago
  If you meant the EPA, it looks like it isn't doing too great job of protecting the land either if peoples taps are running with manure like the article shows.
- dleslie 8y ago
  We look and learn from our neighbours to the South, and what outcomes we see down there generates strong public support to maintain the system we have. Frankly, as a consumer, American dairy, beef, poultry and produce make me nervous.
  - gerbilly 8y ago
    I never eat any animal products when travelling in the US. They are of much lower quality, and full of hormones and additives.
  - ucaetano 8y ago
    > generates strong public support to maintain the system we have. Oh, yeah, everyone loves a protectionist market, when they're part of it...
    - 8y ago

sandworm101 8y ago

Don't mention steel in relation to US-Canada trade. Canada is extremely unhappy to see China's steel constantly exempted while Canadian steel is subject tariff. As other posters have pointed out, Canada's protected dairy market is about far more than keeping farms going. It is about regulating a stable food supply and associated external impacts.

microcolonel 8y ago
> Canada's protected dairy market is about far more than keeping farms going. It is about regulating a stable food supply and associated external impacts. Canadians do consume a fair amount of dairy in global terms, but honestly it's not a big part of most people's diets by calories. If dairy got more expensive for a few months, or a decade, or forever, people would just buy less of it. If it got less expensive, those inclined might buy more of it sometimes. There is no moral or practical benefit to to Canadian society at large in "stabilizing" the dairy supply, if the current regime could even be considered that.
- dleslie 8y ago
  There's also that the Canadian Food Guide just dropped dairy as an essential food group. https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/ https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/

lancewiggs 8y ago

"American government contributed around $22.2 billion in direct and indirect subsidies to the dairy sector in 2015." That's over double the amount that New Zealand's dairy sector (grass fed, not housed in sheds) makes from exports each year. Not only is the industrial US system inefficient and subsidised, but the milk quality is poor as well. And let's not avoid the question of burping cows and Methane emissions. https://www.realagriculture.com/2018/02/u-s-dairy-subsidies-equal-73-percent-of-producer-returns-says-new-report/ https://www.realagriculture.com/2018/02/u-s-dairy-subsidies-...